Vintage Strategy

• 

  Read Me! Vintage Strategy FAQ
  • Brass Man

  1
  11
  Votes
  1
  Posts
  1419
  Views

  No one has replied

• 

  White Eldrazi
  deck tech eldrazi • • Brass Man

  262
  10
  Votes
  262
  Posts
  124586
  Views

  

  @prn said in White Eldrazi: @nba84 Suppression Field looks like a pretty interesting addition. Would you care to post your list? I'd be interested to see how you integrate it. Paul Seconded. Played another 5 Shops matches tonight and won 2, so we’re getting better! . . . It’s obviously still rough, but Big Thalia has been the MVP thus far. Seems like the trick is to quickly land her and one other solid piece of interaction, like Null Rod or Wasteland. That tempo can be just enough to get you there. Kataki and Serenity both did some nice work the one time they turned up; I’m more and more convinced I want the 2nd Serenity. Unfortunately there aren’t any Japanese copies on any major vendors’ sites :(
• 

  Blue Brew no more Blue Stew
  • moorebrother1

  39
  1
  Votes
  39
  Posts
  2337
  Views

  S

  Could Trinket Mage into Chalice of the Void be an option over Mental Misstep?
• M

  Goblins, an Undervalued Tribe in Vintage
  • msg67183

  136
  2
  Votes
  136
  Posts
  74055
  Views

  

  @aelien A local kid runs a goofy vintage build against me. He has 4 cavern. 4 Null Rod, 4 Magus and 2 Bloodmoon... I think? Then Lacky, Recruiter and Matron into Seige-Gang, Warchief (He calls it war chef), and Krenko. Then some burn. Maybe 2 Bolts and a Tarfire? I wish I had a list for you. It's not bad, but it's not great either. I run Oath, so I have a great matchup against it. I'm not sold on the moons cuz they're slow. Null Rod seems great here. I wonder about Damping Sphere too. He barely ever plays more than one spell per turn, and nearly always plays one. The games he loses, it's just to fair and slow. The games he wins are often a turn 1 Lacky or Recruiter, followed by turn 2 Moon effect or Null Rod + A Siege Gang or Krenko. Cavern into Lacky is just really hard to beat sometimes. It makes Misstep look pretty dumb. When it's good, it's super good. I've seen it just bust Shops and Xerox before by getting way ahead in 2-3 turns. (Watching Krenko fight Shops it pretty awesome too.) I've also seen it do nothing at all a lot of the time.
• S

  Vintage KCI
  • skeptimist

  4
  1
  Votes
  4
  Posts
  352
  Views

  

  I played against Vintage KCI in a league a few weeks ago, right after Matt Nass’s first top 8. Here's an album of the board state after all three games.
• 

  Miracles in Vintage?
  • Ghost588

  5
  0
  Votes
  5
  Posts
  330
  Views

  

  @ghost588 Yeah it’s not good. Mana Drain is not even that good. Counterbalance is a super conditional Mana Drain. 🤷🏻‍♂️ You’ll spend all your effort trying to get it to break even. If you have UU up for something like that, you’d just be happier with Mana Drain. Vintage is all about what you can do immediately. Conditional advantage over the long haul doesn’t really pan out in Vintage, especially when their are things like Abrupt Decay or in response to your Top, Pyroblast your Counterbalance. Or things like countering Treasure Cruise? It’s not the kind of battle you want to fight. I recommend trying it and I suspect you’ll begin reducing them until you have none left.
• ?

  Vintage Lands
  deck tech • • Guest

  71
  5
  Votes
  71
  Posts
  4403
  Views

  

  I agree with your analysis but for one point : tutor can't get you a silver bullet in instant whereas entomb can. However, maybe we don't need that technology. I understand that relying too much on the graveyard can be a problem but IMHO any card with flashback or retrace can have a potential in that deck. Raven's crime is better than you think and can easily deal with 3 cards a turn but i agree that the strong black requirement would make this deck very different and is not worth it on its own.
• 

  Back to Basics!
  mentor control big blue back to basics • • StormtheBrain

  6
  1
  Votes
  6
  Posts
  596
  Views

  

  Thanks you for your advice. Blood Moon seems like fun, too, but I'd rather be blue based. Standstill looks fine. Therefore I'd make the following exchanges: 3x Standstill for 3x Preordain 3x Tundra + 4x Mishra's Factory + 2x Islands for 7x Islands + 1x Plains + 1x Tundra 3x Wasteland for 2x Back to Basics + 1x Thing in the Ice 1x Crucible of Worlds for 1x Jace, Vryns Prodigy 2x Stony Silence for 2x Null Rod Maybe take out Mystical Tutor or Merchant Scroll for another Swords. Maybe add Narset Transcendent, I really like her. I love long games, but my biggest threat is the time on magic online. Guess I need to train a bit more :) Thanks guys and best regards, StormtheBrain
• 

  Yawgmoth's Storm
  storm • • Aelien

  44
  3
  Votes
  44
  Posts
  11115
  Views

  

  I was in Houston for the weekend, which included Vintage yesterday. Thanks to Easter we only got 5, so we did a round robin. I wound up coming in first. Matches were: Round 1: Show & Tell: 2-0 Round 2: Merfolk: 2-0 Round 3: UWR Mentor Control: 1-2 Round 4: bye Round 5: GB Depths: 2-0 (Obviously this is a pretty easy meta for Storm.) I played the same 60 as the last time I piloted Bargain Storm, with a Llawan added to the sideboard for lols (Houston has an inbred meta, and you can expect 1-2 Merfolk players each round). So that's: 1 Vamp 4 Duress 4 Dark Ritual 3 Cabal Ritual 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Necro 1 Yawg Will 1 Tendrils 2 Dark Petition 3 Bargain 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Brainstorm 1 Ponder 1 Probe 3 Preordain 1 Chain of Vapor 1 Hurkyl's 1 Time Walk 1 Timetwister 1 Mind's Desire 1 Mana Crypt 1 Petal 1 LED 1 Lotus 5 Moxen 1 Sol Ring 1 Mana Vault 3 Defense Grid 1 Academy 1 Library 4 U Sea 1 Swamp 1 Island 1 Bloodstained Mire 4 Delta 2 Bontu's Last Reckoning 1 Sadistic Sacrament 2 Ravenous Trap 1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress 1 Chain of Vapor 2 Hurkyl's 1 Tinker 1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind 1 Tormod's 1 Defense Grid 1 Swamp 1 Island Some quick thoughts: Shops is kinda unpopular in paper out here; I think it's sort of a gentlemen's agreement/stigma type deal. Without lots of Thorn of Amethyst, Bargain Storm is incredibly good. That said, I find my next biggest predator is anything in the Big Blue wheelhouse. I'm currently playing 4 Duress, 3 Grid in the main, with an extra Grid in the board. However, I think I need more to help with Big Blue; right now, I feel like it's just "slam must-counters till something sticks," but usually, nothing sticks. Thoughtsieze and Misstep are the two things that come to mind, unless I splash red for Pyroblast. Bontu's and the grave hate have consistently been kinda dead slots. I'm thinking I'll go -2 Bontu's, -2 Ravenous Trap, +1 Dismember, +1 Thoughtseize, +2 Misstep? Something like that. Obviously no one should ever play Llawan. I beat Merfolk with a Llawan, but I also woulda won if I'd just combo'd off. Still, she was pretty adorable. All that said, I'll be on White Eldrazi for the forseeable future - gotta start prepping for SCG Con!
• 

  There will be Jund
  • sodoyouwearacape

  18
  6
  Votes
  18
  Posts
  1502
  Views

  N

  @hierarchnoble As is tradition on the Drain. I give us about 10 more posts before someone shouts "Restrict mental Misstep!" That said, re: Jund--I feel like we should be casting at least some deck smoothers. Maybe something like Faithless Looting? Or Sylvan Library? Just having 2x Chains isn't going to solve the problem of "ah crap, they drew a lot of cards"--I'd rather have the ability to just keep on K-Commanding/Scab Clan Berserkering them.
• N

  Competitive Viability of Flash Rector
  • nungnum

  3
  0
  Votes
  3
  Posts
  554
  Views

  

  @nungnum said in Competitive Viability of Flash Rector: For those unaware flash is one of the stupidest cards ever printed. Oh crap we should restrict it.
• 

  [DOM] Dominaria Rules Change
  • thecravenone

  20
  1
  Votes
  20
  Posts
  1585
  Views

  K

  By the rules above, Blightening should still be able to hit planeswalkers. The discard 2 cards is not part of a calculation or information used to determine damage. Its simply a secondary effect of the spell. A player with 0 cards in hand can be targeted and damaged by blightening so there is no reason a planeswalker couldn't be. And the discarding 2 cards has no affect or bearing on the damage done to the player. I guess we'll have to wait for the errata to be sure, but from the rules above, blightening should still hit planeswalkers.
• 

  [DOM] - Leaked Promo cards (New cards)
  • Protoaddct

  10
  4
  Votes
  10
  Posts
  914
  Views

  1

  @maximumcdawg said in [DOM] - Leaked Promo cards (New cards): Where... where do you rub it Don't ask / Don't tell.
• 

  Two Card Monte
  deck tech 2-card monte • • thecravenone

  94
  9
  Votes
  94
  Posts
  19960
  Views

  

  This is what I've been tinkering with. I have no idea if this is any good (I have a suspicion it will fall flat on its face), but I never have gotten the chance to try it out. *Ignore the sideboard for the most part. I've given little thought to it. 2 Card Monte (idea) Creatures (10) 3 Dark Confidant 3 Foundry Inspector 1 Lodestone Golem 3 Painter's Servant Spells (12) 1 Abrade 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Ancient Grudge 1 Demonic Consultation 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Disenchant 3 Pyroblast 1 Time Walk 1 Tinker 1 Vampiric Tutor Artifacts(16) 1 Black Lotus 3 Grindstone 4 Helm of Obedience 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Sol Ring 1 Trinisphere Enchantments (4) 4 Leyline of the Void Lands (18) 4 Ancient Tomb 4 Gemstone Mine 4 Mana Confluence 3 Mishra's Workshop 1 Tolarian Academy 2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth Sideboard (15) 1 Abrade 1 Ancient Grudge 1 Balance 1 City of Brass 3 Containment Priest 3 Mindbreak Trap 3 Nature's Claim 1 Rest in Peace 1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind The things you normally don't see in a 2 Card Monte list: Foundry Inspector Lodestone Golemn Foundry Inspector In multiple match-ups, I lost because I was 1 mana short on certain turns. I kind of wondered, would an artifact cost reducer help in this deck like it does Ravager shops? Hard to say, but I felt and still feel it may be worth the try. This also adds the benefit of being an okay body (3/2). Which is something this deck can have trouble with, so buying a turn or two might be the difference between a win and a loss. Though, since this isn't really directly helping to pull off the combo, it very well could be a liability. Lodestone Golemn A great beat down body and with the main focus of this deck being artifacts, this can slow down an opponent. I think the body of the Lodestone helps tremendously and can impact a game. I'm quite less keen on this one and might be better as a Dark Confidant, Foundry Inspector, or maybe even a Tezzeret. Overall What I wanted was to get a little bit away from in the deck is being too all in on the combo, which is why I cut the draw 7 cards. The version I ran in the past, most likely due to my inexperience and misplays than the build (I trust @Shaman-Ben's deck building), I felt it fall on it's own face a lot and I was hoping to top deck. I wanted to shore up some of the weaknesses in that build, so I wanted to add a bit of a creature package (Lodestone Golemn, Foundry Inspector, Dark Confidant). I flirted with unique 2 Card Monte ideas such things as: Phyrexian Revoker, Sphere of Resistance, Red Daretti, Thorn of Amethyst, Induced Amnesia, etc. (I'm sure there's more, but that's what I can think of right now). None of them felt right, except maybe, Induced Amnesia. I think Goblin Welder could be excellent and is probably the correct path for me to take, but I wanted to try an unique spin on the deck. I'm not sure if changing to Pyroblast is correct for the deck. Mostly did it because I sold my Beta Pyroblasts. If I was running Dack Fayden, I would for sure play Pyroblast.
• 

  What decks (if any) will use Damping Sphere?
  • Chase_Dagger

  2
  0
  Votes
  2
  Posts
  460
  Views

  

  Closing this thread to move discussion to the in-progress thread on this topic here: http://themanadrain.com/topic/1791/damping-sphere ! : )
• M

  Deck Idea, Would Like to Hear Thoughts
  • msg67183

  3
  0
  Votes
  3
  Posts
  422
  Views

  M

  If I had access to White I'd be playing Kambal over Scab Clan, it's basically a hedge against combo while having relevance Blue decks. Null Rod is mostly there for Outcome and to help against workshops while having all of the artifact removal so that Ravager can't gain value off of the removal or Ballista shoot your creatures in response to removal. A big finisher would be nice not sure which one to use. Pack Rat also seems interesting with Punishing Fire and three main deck Ancient Grudges. As for my meta I was only playing online so that's what I go by.
• K

  Most Optimal Sub-Optimal Deck Construction
  • KingLeovold

  7
  2
  Votes
  7
  Posts
  848
  Views

  

  @desolutionist You know I never really thought about this before, but I think there could be a place for Filter Lands? I've played 4 Volcanic Islands to support Shattering Spree before. I know you wouldn't run 4x, but a Cascade Bluffs could actually be better than Volcanic Island for hitting {R}{R}. It could be pretty relevant for cards like Chandra, Torch of Defiance as well
• 

  {SCD} Cards like Quirion Dryad
  • Shax

  16
  0
  Votes
  16
  Posts
  4091
  Views

  

  @shax said in {SCD} Cards like Quirion Dryad: [it's] like Lorescale Coatl except it keeps the counters. For what it's worth, Lorescale Coatl keeps its counters. Go hog wild
• 

  Dominaria Spoilers Leaked in Release Notes
  • Aaron Patten

  9
  0
  Votes
  9
  Posts
  1000
  Views

  B

  flying Foundry Inspector
• 

  [Primer] Oath
  • thecravenone

  7
  0
  Votes
  7
  Posts
  1685
  Views

  G

  Following up to our conversation on Twitter, would definitely like some sideboarding strategy advice. I've been trying out both Librarian Oath (shoutout to Ben Perry) and a Burning Paradoxical Oath list that Jason Jaco played.