Vintage Strategy

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  R/G hatebears (deck in Progress)
  • John Cox

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  https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1226275#paper

  inspiration

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  Druid
  deck tech decklist deck discu • • J-B-E

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  @brass-man

  Fair I didn't really go into a huge amount of detail and just focused on the fun part of seeing your opponent bring in 8 dead cards.

  Yes but I did say I was going out on a limb, it's a bold claim and could well not be true

  As for the dead cards, the only completely dead ones are the bridges, you can cast Dread Return, it doesn't come up, you can cast the narcos & pitch them to FOW, Lab Man again is castable but not ideal and is deep Analysis.

  Definitely easier to transform Oath into OmniTell as you said due to the creatures being in the deck already. The advantage with this transform is that you tend to get your opponent way more in the board with the exception of Containment Priest, however you can play around that.

  TBH I think the suggestions from this thread of using Angel of Glory's Rise instead of Deep Analysis are good and I've made that change to the list, didn't fully agree on the Azami, sure it gives you slightly more resilience but Snapcaster probe seems a fraction better and limits the number of dead cards.

  You can resolve Oath, untap and not win the game whether it be through not having a Forbiden Orchard or simply that Emrakul wont get it done, tbf Griselbrand does 95+% of the time I would imagine.

  Testing has gone really well, it's been quite a long process. The original build had Concordant Crossroads, Cavern of Souls and was just a silly turn 1 win or lose deck.

  I think that Thoughtseize is really fantastic in Vintage , so many decks have specific cards in them the deck is trying to find, like Oath, PO etc and being able to take the one card they need leaving the rest is pretty strong.PO especially will keep a hand that either has a PO, Tinker, maybe even a draw 7 and nothing else so the Thoughtseizes are pretty great there.

  Aggro Shops is an awful match up game 1, Revoker & Ballista are close to unbeatable, improves a lot game 2 as they tend to weaken their deck a bit bringing in graveyard hate, needles etc and also use Revoker/ Needle to name Hermit Druid.

  I like the PO matchup, the hand disruption is very good and they have no way to interact with Druid apart from usually a 1 of bounce card. The problem is they don't have a heavy sideboard for graveyard hate usually just some crypts.

  Storm - good matchup, hand disruption is king here.
  Oath is usually a good matchup made so by the Abrupt decays, but your show and tell plan can be a little less good if you don't have a discard spell and they draw Grisselbrand. Also unless there's Inferno Titan if you play a druid into an oath, your win percentage is not TERRIBLE, but not great either.

  I haven't lost to dredge....yet, but their game 1 Leyline is close to unbeatable. The new Abrupt decay coming out of Ravnica looks like it will slot right into this list.

  Big fan of your lists btw Brian, try this one out and see what you think

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  Budget/Unpowered options in 2018
  • Stuart

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  Just for clarification, I'm pasting the deck construction restrictions to be competing in the "budget" category.

  Budget prizes are awarded to the highest placing decks without any of the following cards:
  any "Power Nine", Bazaar of Baghdad, Mishra's Workshop or Library of Alexandria

  The change from last year I can see is you can no longer run Library of Alexandria, but you can run Time Vault.

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  Vintage Lands
  deck tech • • Guest

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  @childe_roland Crucible is very bad against Dack Faden, it does seem like there should be a slot for it in vintage lands, even in the board against shops but funnily it's not quite as good as you'd think.

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  Lands, A Different Build For Vintage
  deck tech decklist deck disc • • J-B-E

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  @bactgudz They are worth considering perhaps 3 shops and a mox might be right. The advantage workshop does have is that most of the time it will be a Savannah and you often need all the mana you can get in lands. Having played with 4 X Shops I haven't found it to be a hinderance that much of the time but yeah for sure there are occasions where you don't get the Riftstone, one small advantage shops has and it's only come up a couple of times is that sometimes casting the Serum Powder is the correct play if you need that bit more mana, usually you just hold it and discard to Bazaar.

  This list still needs a couple of slight changes and playing 3 shops could be well be the best way to do it.

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  Paradoxes
  deck tech deck discussion paradoxical outcome decklist • • J-B-E

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  Oath Sideboard Plan Help
  • PugSuperStar

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  Paradoxical Outcome - Deckbuilding Primer
  • IamActuallyLvL1

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  @walked I am streaming all my challenges on twitch and loading the vods to youtube. The PO decks I stream are a little gimmicky but the lines are the similar. Maybe they will help you out.

  http://themanadrain.com/topic/2120/iamactuallylvl1-youtube-vintage-challenge-recordings

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  Junk Hatebears
  • Stormanimagus

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  Howdy, so I am working on a mostly WB version of the deck and I was vacillating on a couple things.

  Here is the list with which I am starting :

  White Black Hatebears Jacob Hilty Mana (26) 4 Cavern of Souls 4 Marsh Flats 1 Windswept Heath 1 Verdant Catacombs 3 Scrubland 1 Savannah 1 Plains 1 Swamp 1 Karakas 1 Strip Mine 2 Wasteland 1 Black Lotus 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Mox Jet Spells and Critter (34) 3 Stony Silence 4 Deathrite Shaman 4 Dark Confidant 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben 3 Spirit of the Labyrinth 3 Phyrexian Revoker 3 Kambal, Consul of Allocation 2 Containment Priest 3 Mental Misstep 3 Swords to Plowshares 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Demonic Consultation Sideboard (15) 3 Fragmentize 1 Containment Priest 2 Rest in Peace 3 Kataki, War's Wage 1 Stony Silence 3 Infernal Reckoning 2 Ravenous Trap

  My thought was that I could maybe get by with Karn over bob as the CA engine, which I think is better, but likely that means I would want to also run a different lock piece in place of stony silence in the main (namely damping sphere). I would also probably run 1 additional revoker at that point.
  That may or may not be feasible against shops (read Ballista) any thoughts?

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  Playing Strategically - Wheat vs Chaff
  • BandsWithOthers

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  I find that mastery is not always about winning but looking for improvement in every game. Sometimes it is experimentation and sometimes is it mentoring players no matter who they are.

  I played a lot in the lead up to SCG Con and I lost some games because I showed my opponents how to beat me, I wanted them to play their best game and I needed to see how to counter it. I out played some high level people and still lost, but I still had fun. I also just won some games because in Vintage your deck will just crush people.

  When playing at a level where everyone you play against is a master it is easy to see your flaws. That is where you truly need to notice your weaknesses - engagement, timing, sequencing, strategy, etc...

  To me a true master, is someone who knows their deck and their own limitations. We all have limitations and it important to know them and so that you can expand your game and your range.

  I mostly play Vintage but sometimes I play Legacy and Modern. I typically play at a high level but those formats do not keep me very engaged and I tend lose my motivation after a bit in large events.

  I find that I am playing at my highest level when I am having fun. When I am playing only to win at any cost and I am not having fun then I am not a player that anyone wants to play against. It is important to have more purpose than just winning, I find that is not just good for playing Magic but generally good in life.

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  Best Dredge deck to build for testing?
  • Prkchpsndwiches

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  @serberoth the chance of you having the card in your opening hand + top 2-3 is a few percentage points; that times how much it changes the match isn't worth what it costs you.
  dredge, of all decks, least wants to run over 60, because it wants to get to one of its 4 copies of one specific card. in other decks, particularly in non-vintage formats, it's easier to justify stuff like 61-63 card scapeshift decks.

  anything worth playing is worth putting in the 60; if you decide to add an ingot chewer, for example, to a 60, for example, it is likely not the 61st card, something else is, and you cut that.

  if you want to play "sideboard" cards main you can, but it doesn't require going beyond 60. jeskai doesn't go to 61 to play fragmentize or wear/tear main, they cut another card for it.

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  Enchantress Viability?
  • Tittliewinks22

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  @oestrus said in Enchantress Viability?:

  It does matter when you're trying to lay the groundwork, and your bricks all fold to Misstep (e.g. Wild Growth, Utopia Sprawl).

  As I indicated, I did not play these cards. Please read my reply entirely before responding. If you want to play 3 colours, you cannot afford to play these cards and get 3-for-1'd by an opposing Wasteland. The only 1 cmc cards I cared about resolving was Mystic Remora.

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  Empty the Warrens in DPS Sideboards
  • nevilshute

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  @desolutionist Pack Rat was good before ballista was printed, now its just pretty bad in my opinion.

  In general splashing 1 additional color for eather Mentor or Wheel and Empty is pretty easy and there is just a bit downside to it. However, my current build is pure UB and features tinker bot in the maindeck instead of Mentor or Empty. I dont really miss wheel a lot, i have to say, but wheel would definetly be the main reason to but a badlands in there again, not really Empty. However i dont object to empty as much as i did a few month ago, i can see it as a small number, what alienates (get it?) me is people playing 3 or even 4 copies.

  Against Shops i rather board in a huge amount of bounce spells and aim to win with 1 of them resolving at the end of their turn, or try to win early with a tinker. ( i play 1x Hurkyl's maindeck, and 1 chain of vapor, and i bring in 3x hurkyl's, 1x Rebuild, 1x Echoing Truth and 1x Island. cutting mostly discard spells and defense grids)

  Against most blue control decks i board in more defense grids and sometimes more discard (depending on the state of my sideboard at the time).
  So generally i much rather board in cards that force through my 2 main win cons (tendils and bot) instead of boarding in additional win cons.

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  Yawgmoth's Storm
  storm • • Aelien

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  Cheers @Hrishi and @5space ! That was my intuition - I value being able to fetch basics, and a Scrubland seems pretty bad.

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  Blue Jund
  • NBA84

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  @bleedth3sky the faux pas wasn't in the logic of having a basic in the board, but rather fetchlands in the main that cannot fetch for it.

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  Selkie Strike(s). . . AGAIN!
  • Stormanimagus

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  @topical_island I cut it back in 2010/2011 when I played this deck a lot it was very good back then. It really helped in the mirror since this deck was fairly heavily played at that time. I think now you would just lose to PO if you cut the FOW.

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  Why is Arlinn Kord played in Oath of Druids?
  • brianpk80

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  @zaefermalkav said in Why is Arlinn Kord played in Oath of Druids?:

  Great article!!!

  I'm one of that guys that use Airlinn Kord just because you used it. After reading this i have a new perspective of how important she is.

  Thanks!

  You're welcome. It's a honor to have the trust of the community and players like you.

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  Bazaar of Baghdad beyond Dredge
  • moorebrother1

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  @thewhitedragon69 Thats a very different take as I said we avoid serum powder. we can have busted bazaar draws but we can play the long game and not just lose if we cant mull to bazaar. we also don't have to take up sideboard space with hollowones and gurmags as they are already mainboard.

  Graf diggers is not a very good choice of grave hate it's worth mentioning leyline as that shuts down squee/bazaar as well as survival combo kills yet we can still pull thru. Grafdiggers we just cast decay or manglehorn as we can still fill our grave with impunity. The opponent didn't "not" do anything just that casting 2 mana preordains into 4 mana dack is great vs hollow one not vs hatebears.

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  How can I build a playable mono blue control(or combo) deck ?
  • iloveblue

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  @5space said in How can I build a playable mono blue control(or combo) deck ?:

  @macdeath said in How can I build a playable mono blue control(or combo) deck ?:

  Mono blue is not worth it for a combo deck since without the black tutors you loose a lot of consistency. You want a deck with redundant pieces. I would suggest revisiting the Back 2 basics mono blue control with pwalkers and versatile blue creatures (like Consecrated sphinx, Torrential gearhulk, Vendillion clique, Snapcaster mage, trinket mage ...) In today's meta you can use Dismember or Propaganda/energy flux as your creature/artifact answers and have a strong counter package with 3/4 mana drains.

  How about High Tide? Probably a splash would be good, but High Tide is quite consistent in other formats. I remember reading this back in the day, but it's quite dated:

  http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/13186_Tsunami_Warning_Bringing_High_Tide_to_Vintage.html

  High tide is barely playable in Legacy. You could build a completely broken vintage high tide for sure, is that deck good? No (believe me i've tried).
  The deck will have to be filled with "do nothing" cards which are not "must counters" for other blue decks. You basically end up with a deck similar to the old Gush storm decks except you are not favored against other blue decks (which defeats the whole purpose).

  Off the top of my head, here is a starting point for a high tide list in vintage:

  MD:
  1 Black Lotus
  1 Mox Sapphire
  1 Mox Jet
  1 Mox Pearl
  1 Lotus Petal

  1 Library of Alexandria
  3 Tundra
  2 Underground Sea
  4 Flooded strand
  2 Polluted delta
  4 Island

  1 Monastery Mentor

  1 Ancestral Recall
  1 Brainstorm
  1 Brain Freeze
  1 Dig through Time
  4 Frantic Search
  4 High tide
  1 Hurkyl's Recall
  2 Flusterstorm
  4 Force of will
  4 Mental misstep
  1 Mystical tutor
  1 Vampiric Tutor

  1 Demonic Tutor
  1 Merchant scroll
  1 Mind's desire
  4 Preordain
  1 Ponder
  3 Time Spiral
  1 Time Walk
  1 Yawgmoth's Will

  SB:
  3 Containment Priest
  2 Tormod's Crypt
  3 Hurkyl's Recall
  2 Fragmentize
  1 Plains
  1 Balance
  1 Flusterstorm
  2 Stony Silence

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  Bomberman 2017
  • enderfall

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  From what I see, most players not familiar with Bomberman, try and add the combo to a blue control shell, or cram three decks into one. That might work here and there, but in that case, why even go Bomberman?
  Just my two cents.
  Also, more Jace, The Mindscultor/ Sensei's D. Top, over cantrips and Snapcaster in this deck is best. Jtms IS the back-up plan. Tinker->BsC is good post-board against specific MUs but I wouldn't do it main. Too much tempo loss. The games where you would win with Tinker, you could've won through Bomberman/Jace anyway.