---

---

Vintage Strategy

• 

  Miracles in Vintage?
  • Ghost588

  5
  0
  Votes
  5
  Posts
  988
  Views

  

  @ghost588

  Yeah it’s not good. Mana Drain is not even that good. Counterbalance is a super conditional Mana Drain. ‍️ You’ll spend all your effort trying to get it to break even. If you have UU up for something like that, you’d just be happier with Mana Drain. Vintage is all about what you can do immediately. Conditional advantage over the long haul doesn’t really pan out in Vintage, especially when their are things like Abrupt Decay or in response to your Top, Pyroblast your Counterbalance. Or things like countering Treasure Cruise? It’s not the kind of battle you want to fight.

  I recommend trying it and I suspect you’ll begin reducing them until you have none left.

• 

  Back to Basics!
  mentor control big blue back to basics • • StormtheBrain

  6
  1
  Votes
  6
  Posts
  1482
  Views

  

  Thanks you for your advice. Blood Moon seems like fun, too, but I'd rather be blue based. Standstill looks fine. Therefore I'd make the following exchanges:
  3x Standstill for 3x Preordain
  3x Tundra + 4x Mishra's Factory + 2x Islands for 7x Islands + 1x Plains + 1x Tundra
  3x Wasteland for 2x Back to Basics + 1x Thing in the Ice
  1x Crucible of Worlds for 1x Jace, Vryns Prodigy
  2x Stony Silence for 2x Null Rod
  Maybe take out Mystical Tutor or Merchant Scroll for another Swords.
  Maybe add Narset Transcendent, I really like her.

  I love long games, but my biggest threat is the time on magic online. Guess I need to train a bit more

  Thanks guys and best regards,
  StormtheBrain

• 

  There will be Jund
  • sodoyouwearacape

  18
  6
  Votes
  18
  Posts
  3086
  Views

  N

  @hierarchnoble As is tradition on the Drain.

  I give us about 10 more posts before someone shouts "Restrict mental Misstep!"

  That said, re: Jund--I feel like we should be casting at least some deck smoothers. Maybe something like Faithless Looting? Or Sylvan Library?

  Just having 2x Chains isn't going to solve the problem of "ah crap, they drew a lot of cards"--I'd rather have the ability to just keep on K-Commanding/Scab Clan Berserkering them.

• 

  [DOM] Dominaria Rules Change
  • thecravenone

  20
  1
  Votes
  20
  Posts
  3552
  Views

  K

  By the rules above, Blightening should still be able to hit planeswalkers. The discard 2 cards is not part of a calculation or information used to determine damage. Its simply a secondary effect of the spell. A player with 0 cards in hand can be targeted and damaged by blightening so there is no reason a planeswalker couldn't be. And the discarding 2 cards has no affect or bearing on the damage done to the player. I guess we'll have to wait for the errata to be sure, but from the rules above, blightening should still hit planeswalkers.

• 

  [DOM] - Leaked Promo cards (New cards)
  • Protoaddct

  10
  4
  Votes
  10
  Posts
  1838
  Views

  1

  @maximumcdawg said in [DOM] - Leaked Promo cards (New cards):

  Where... where do you rub it

  Don't ask / Don't tell.

• 

  What decks (if any) will use Damping Sphere?
  • Chase_Dagger

  2
  0
  Votes
  2
  Posts
  871
  Views

  

  Closing this thread to move discussion to the in-progress thread on this topic here: http://themanadrain.com/topic/1791/damping-sphere ! : )

• M

  Deck Idea, Would Like to Hear Thoughts
  • msg67183

  3
  0
  Votes
  3
  Posts
  806
  Views

  M

  If I had access to White I'd be playing Kambal over Scab Clan, it's basically a hedge against combo while having relevance Blue decks. Null Rod is mostly there for Outcome and to help against workshops while having all of the artifact removal so that Ravager can't gain value off of the removal or Ballista shoot your creatures in response to removal. A big finisher would be nice not sure which one to use. Pack Rat also seems interesting with Punishing Fire and three main deck Ancient Grudges. As for my meta I was only playing online so that's what I go by.

• K

  Most Optimal Sub-Optimal Deck Construction
  • KingLeovold

  7
  2
  Votes
  7
  Posts
  1568
  Views

  

  @desolutionist You know I never really thought about this before, but I think there could be a place for Filter Lands? I've played 4 Volcanic Islands to support Shattering Spree before. I know you wouldn't run 4x, but a Cascade Bluffs could actually be better than Volcanic Island for hitting {R}{R}. It could be pretty relevant for cards like Chandra, Torch of Defiance as well

• 

  {SCD} Cards like Quirion Dryad
  • Shax

  16
  0
  Votes
  16
  Posts
  5800
  Views

  

  @shax said in {SCD} Cards like Quirion Dryad:

  [it's] like Lorescale Coatl except it keeps the counters.

  For what it's worth, Lorescale Coatl keeps its counters. Go hog wild

• 

  Dominaria Spoilers Leaked in Release Notes
  • Aaron Patten

  9
  0
  Votes
  9
  Posts
  1711
  Views

  B

  flying Foundry Inspector

• 

  [Primer] Oath
  • thecravenone

  7
  0
  Votes
  7
  Posts
  2724
  Views

  G

  Following up to our conversation on Twitter, would definitely like some sideboarding strategy advice. I've been trying out both Librarian Oath (shoutout to Ben Perry) and a Burning Paradoxical Oath list that Jason Jaco played.

• N

  What is the best current build for Oath?
  • Naixin

  3
  1
  Votes
  3
  Posts
  1005
  Views

  

  You did not include any combo builds of Oath. I have been playing Saheeli Rai Oath with great success and I know that the old Brian Kelly Salvagers build is still OK. I have seen Paradoxical Oath on MTGO and it did win. I am not sure if these are of any interest to you but the style of these decks are very different since they win in a very different ways and fight the field in very different ways.

  I look at Oath as 3 types of decks - Control, Combo, and Planeswalker

  The control builds have the core counterspells - 4 FOW, 4 MM, 2 Flusterstorm and 2 creatures plus some defense.

  Combo builds vary greatly with Time Vault, Yawmoth's Will, Paradoxical Outcome or in my case Sun Titan and they have some way to lock the game down for a combo style finish.

  Planeswalker builds are the Brian Kelly style decks with Inferno Titan and 3 or 4 differrent planeswalkers.

  I have built all of these decks and I have tested them on paper. I do not play Oath on MTGO for various reasons but I am seeing that you may choose a different style of Oath based on where you are playing the deck.

  The combo builds compete well against Shops, Dredge, and other combo style decks like Paradoxical Mentor, but these builds have some trouble with blue decks depending on you decks counter package and defenses.

  The planeswalker deck appears to be the most versatile against the field but they are also the hardest to play.

  The control style has issues with Shops and Dredge but plays well against blue and combo.

  I do not like the idea that there is a best deck here, just like several Shop players and Dredge players will tell you there are several versions of those decks that perform differently in the meta-game.

• G

  Oath and Griselbrand
  oath griselbrand inferno titan sol ring • • GutoCmtt

  10
  3
  Votes
  10
  Posts
  3148
  Views

  

  ...contains some metrics to influence the game-play experience that they believe would somehow increase the program's profitability.

  Tinfoil hat time!

  Nah, just recognizing that it's a good rule of thumb to err on the side of assuming corruption in an American institution rather than lack thereof.

  As for the correct number and identities of Oath targets, I would say it varies, but I do not recommend less than three unless you're playing one of the terrible cards to mitigate that (Memory's Journey, Gaea's Blessing, or heaven forbid, Krosan Reclamation). That dead slot is probably just better as creature #3.

  Chrome Mox, while a dreadful accelerant in many lists particularly on the control side, is surprisingly nice in Oath since you can realize some utility for the otherwise chaff cards in hand, whether they are uncastable creatures, inapplicable nuisance counters v. Shops g1, or redundant copies of Oath of Druids. I liked it a lot, especially as it can help make Tolarian Academy viable.

• 

  ChubbyBrews: Blue Jund
  • ChubbyRain

  15
  9
  Votes
  15
  Posts
  2818
  Views

  P

  @pugsuperstar I have been testing a different twist on this list in paper using liliana of the veil in that capacity. It has been OK.

• 

  What Keeps the Fringe at the Fringe?
  • BandsWithOthers

  8
  2
  Votes
  8
  Posts
  1524
  Views

  

  @wretchedcamel I think the only place he can be played might be 93/94. I had a goofy Living Plane/Tim/Instill Energy deck put together for 93/94 that was able to squeak out a few matches but only after playing the long game as a control deck. I might try again and bring it to the Eternal Central Event this year. At least i'd score a few creativity points.

• 

  Reanimator
  • moorebrother1

  20
  0
  Votes
  20
  Posts
  3017
  Views

  

  A local named Dan played Junk Reanimator in our proxy tournament yesterday. I don't know his record off hand but he finished 6/14 in Swiss + 1, so I'd guess that's 3-2. Here's his decklist. Sorry for the formatting - we ran out of deck-reg sheets, so he resorted to a page from his lifepad.

• G

  Powerless landstill: Preparing for scantioned vintage
  • guanno1249

  11
  3
  Votes
  11
  Posts
  2240
  Views

  J

  I have played similar lists without having power and found that 2 snap, 1 clique is a great split. Sol ring is bad generally. Running 4 wasteland, 1 strip is a must and I run 3 factory 1 faerie conclave for manlands. I agree with the use of moat if you can get/borrow one. Balance has always been bad for me...like every time I cast it. I run a maindeck fragmentize and a disenchant. Spell snare is better than 2 mindbreak trap. Shops is a tough matchup and I would run a stony silence and a maindeck energy flux as a hoser. 3 swords is a must. Overall I think you’ve got the right game plan just a few small tweaks. Test against shops and oath a lot as they can be really tough matchups and require tight play to navigate. Hope this helps. Just my opinion and you can take it with a grain of salt

• M

  Grixis Thieves
  grixis thieves • • mourningpalace

  64
  1
  Votes
  64
  Posts
  25505
  Views

  

  @nba84 I’m sure it’s a budget issue, but there are things like Cabal therapy, Surgical Extraction, Meddling Mage, etc where differentiated cards can be beneficial, even if the other card is strictly better.

• ?

  Grixis Drain Control
  • Guest

  21
  2
  Votes
  21
  Posts
  3641
  Views

  ?

  @p3temangus I will not deny there are certain games he does feel mediocre. But other games he’s just boss and has been my main win con many games.

  I’ve also tried out search for azcanta for the scry effect running 3 bobs and a search. That card also seems good but pretty mana intensive once it flips.

  The last paper tournament I played I removed the Bobs and won all my non-shops matches but was pretty stuck against shops which drove me back in this direction. Not saying I am correct in that assessment but I’ve been trying to feel out the best this since then

• R

  BK 4-c Walker/Gift/Chalice/Cobra/SFGM/Taigam Control?
  • ravager101

  10
  6
  Votes
  10
  Posts
  1942
  Views

  

  @marcb Narset may be worth a try but the problem is that she does not affect the board or provide significant card advantage (real or virtual) when it comes down as the other planeswalkers do.