@chubbyrain Gotcha. That was primarily my question. I knew tezzerator was under "big blue" but wasn't sure exactly what blue control was. Is it just more like blue tempo decks like landstill? What is delver? Blue aggro? These are all different styles, much like I wouldn't lump ravager/smokestack as both "shop" decks. The names just aren't very descriptive. Mud/prison shops and aggro shops basically describe what the deck does in the name. Big blue I assume is a blue draw/counter shell that wins with one "big" play, so that makes sense. Blue control was nondescript. I assume that is any blue deck that tries to gain counterspell advantage and win with small threats over many turns? Would delver be in that boat?
@Khahan Using this effect is optional, so if you don’t want to re-draw the card you don’t have to. Good cards go back, bad cards get binned. If anything, this makes the quality of your draws go up. The benefit is marginal and probably not worth it (playing this over Library, Mikokoro, Sea Gate Wreckage, …), but it’s still positive.
Yea I'm waiting for that big monster I can free cast turn 1 off allosaurus rider, but I may be waiting for some time.
Yeah, I am pretty sure you will wait forever though, because the cost reduction is based off the Converted Mana Cost, not the Mana Cost. So, unless they make a pure colorless Emerge guy, that's not going to be possible really.
this seems like another card that is on the verge of playability, this may see play but im not sure, as uvatha has said, with all the creatures running around it might not be good at the moment. if mentor, eldrazi, and young pyro werent everywhere i would say its great. as someone else said in another (diferent card but it applies here) good card but in the wrong meta.
@evouga I completely agree. I'm just pointing out that it does provide an answer that no other card can replicate. Nothing else clears the stack so completely, so it's nice to see a genuinely new counter even if they have costed it out of playability.
I mean, yeah, it's better than Dauntless Escort.
You're thinking of pairing it with Oath of Ghouls to recur it so your board survives anything? Well, I'm with you on the casual side. I have a RWB recurring creature Oath of Ghouls deck that will love this.
In Vintage....? A one-shot allowing your team to survive removal that is not called Swords to Plowshares seems kinda... terrible.
So if you're being a real rules stickler, you could call out an opponent who controls Oath but has less creatures than you for not placing the ability on the stack during your upkeep? Wonder if anyone has ever done that in a tournament before...
Called out? You could... It's not likely to be a particularly harsh punishment unless you can prove your opponent did it intentionally. There is enough confusion surrounding Oath of Druids that the opponent easily could have misunderstood how the card/rules works (this thread is evidence of that). I've on several occasions let my opponent know that I was going to use his Oath in my upkeep and won by flipping over Salvagers. It doesn't come up a lot but I look out for those corner cases. However, I'm never going to try and get my opponent a warning unless I think they should know the interaction and are forgetting intentionally (which is cheating by the rules definition). The better play in my opinion would be to explain it to the opponent after the match.
@Islandswamp I have been thinking about Omniscience builds for the past couple of weeks and here I see that your list is two months old. Oh well! In theory I think that the Omniscience builds are the best suited right now.
Also I think we can shave a Misstep for another spell right now, preferably something like an Abrupt Decay which interacts favorably with Priest, Displacer, both Thalias, etc.
A card for 2 mana (totally playable in a deck that wants to spit the whole hand ASAP) cannot be compared with a card that costs 2RR, much harder to cast. Same for Jagged Poppet (I have seen it play in vintage). And this is a 5/5, way harder to kill.
Affinity seems the natural home, but even aggro mud can play it.
Going back to the original post and card list Brassman:
Considering all the mentor, the rise of the eldrazi and some recent success of various fish type decks would you swap out duress for thoughtseize? Seems a much better meta-game call to me.
@ChubbyRain actually I don't think there is ... you can just look at one tag (which would do it if everyone used "deck-discussion", but you can't look at everything BUT one tag ... definitely make a thread in metadiscussion/feature requests if that's something you could use
... not that I've been able to get to a ton of those lately
There are corner cases in which it has some value, like bouncing a Gush, Blightsteel, or your own spell
In what way are those corner cases? You literally just named a hyper common draw spell that gets hurt hard by this, one of the more prominent win conditions in the format, and the most common thing you see in any game of magic, your own spells.
Now in my eyes this is a sideboard card for the sake of versatility, and probably only one in a blue tempo list, but I can EASILY see it being played and that means it merits discussion.
When Natural state was spoiled people said it was trash and would not see play because of Natures claim and then it saw play and I did not hear people apologizing for being wrong. Jace is the example people always go to but we don't need to go to the largest example just to prove a point. A card is vintage playable under a lot of circumstances, I think this will see play for all the reasons people have already laid out.
They are corner cases because like I said before - I'd rather just counter the gush or counter the tinker that brought in blightsteel or swords the blightsteel. Counters and swords are already run in decks. You aren't replacing one of t hose with this card. Bounce card that are run in decks include echoing truth, chain of vapor, repeal and hurkyl's recall. You aren't running unsubstantiate over any of those except maybe chain of vapor. But honestly chain sees little to no play anymore. Hurkyl's and echoing truth are more efficient for the same cost unless you both happen to have blightsteel colossus in play. Then this card is better. That's about all I can think of.
But I guarantee you, people will try this and have success and think this proves them right. What they need to ask themselves is this - was that success because ANY bounce or counter would have worked or was that success because I had this particular card over card X? If its the latter, come back and make the case.
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