@structuremole That's great. I hadn't noticed that detail. Well done. Also check out how Tracker and his clues work with other shops cards like, Ravager, Crucible, Tanglewire, and Kuldotha... Not sayin its awesome, but interesting at least. And in Shops, which tends to have basically no way to draw cards and crap tons of mana... this clue stuff could make a lot of sense. Imagine Tolarian Academy with clues on the table...
@themonadnomad I think it still can but probably doesn't absolutely have to completely lock the opponent out in order to win the game before an opponent without 4 Mishra's Workshop can. The deck was still a powerhouse before the printing of Lodestone Golem, it's just a matter of finding some different tools now.
As much of a fan of Misdirection I am (nothing feels better than stealing Ancestral Recall), it feels pretty weak and underwhelming right now. The last few times I tried it, whenever it was in my hand, I'd either wish it wasn't, or I'd end up pitching it to Force
@gkraigher Library is best in sideboarded games to help you find your sideboard cards (be they anti-hate or transformational stuff).
On Chain of Vapor, I'm not much of a fan. It gets hit by Mental Misstep, but more importantly, it's really bad against Containment Priest and Rest in Peace. Containment Priest has Flash, so it only works for 1 turn if they're tapped out. If they know you're on Chain of Vapors, they can leave up their mana to recast their Priest, making your Chain of Vapors worthless.
Using it on Rest in Peace at least works for a turn, but you're starting from scratch since there's no way to have a graveyard while Rest in Peace is in play. It usually takes more than 1 turn to get going if you're starting from scratch. Once they recast it, it wipes your graveyard again, nullifying your progress. You can get some zombies out of the deal, maybe, but that hardly seems comparable to things that take it out forever.
In my opinion, Chain of Vapor is outdated. It was great when everyone was using Leyline of the Void as their go-to anti-Dredge hate. Now it's bad.
@hankzhong funnily enough, shops has been a great matchup, mentor is good, and storm a bad match up. is it not worth keeping in a few bolts for the mentor decks? i just have always liked having a few removal spells in the board. ill try out your list, ive never tried JVP before as it honestly always looked weak on paper, maybe its better than i think im not sure. my side board is
4 ingot chewer (shops and i bring in two against dredge to take care of bridges)
2 mindbreak trap(storm and other blue decks)
1 flusterstorm(same reason as above)
3 grafdiggers cage (oath and dredge)
2 ravenous trap (dredge)
2 surgical extraction (dredge and storm)
1 ancient grudge (shops)
im not as woried about shops as that has always been a good matchup but as you said, lodestone is banned so that matchup will more than likely change. as i said ill test your deck out.
I've long felt Necro was most useful in mid-range control decks (going all the way back to the black pump-knight/drain life decks) but it seems now it only sees play in storm decks. Does anyone have any experience with this? Perhaps with Monastery Mentor?
Necropotence was used historically almost exclusively used in two different strategic approaches: Aggro and Combo.
From 1995 until roughly 1999, Necropotence was used predominantly in Aggro decks. Then, in the late 90s, it was used in Pebbles combo, and then, most powerfully, in Trix.
In either Aggro or Combo decks, Necropotence was used to refuel and refill, allowing it to overwhelm the control pilot. Necropotence is the greatest card drawer of all time.
That said, blue- centered, multi-color control strategies have almost never used Necropotence to great effect.
The main problem with Necropotence in Control decks is this: Control decks often need multiple turns to set up and execute their finishers. Necropotence does not give you the time to do that. Necropotence really incentivizes you to win the game within 2 turns of resolving it - otherwise your life will be in a very precarious situation.
The secondary problem is casting it. Generating BBB in a control strategy is not easy, and Dark Ritual is usually paired with Necorpotence.
That said, there are decks that have used Necropotence that verge on control. In the mid-1990s, one of the lesser, but still played, Necro decks was mono black control, with a heavy discard suite, but with Corrupts and Drain life effects to buy more time and turns.
Similarly, I have seen Necropotence used to great effect in Lotus Cobra control decks.
Lotus Cobra allows a control pilot to accelerate Necropotence out quickly and generate the BBB without relying on card disadvantageous accelerants like Dark Ritual.
Seems reasonable, but i am really not liking kataki. I was testing against Doomsday and I was surprised by how much game the deck had. I think cutting kataki for hammer mage and then playing chalice seems real interesting.
Pre-Golem, during 4 Gush, 4 Scroll GAT season, I believe the standout version of Workshops was a Metalworker build that just so happened to include the Ravagar/Triskelion combo. I vividly remember testing against it on cockatrice.
On a related note, Does anyone remember the guy from NE area who sometimes played Dark Confidant/Greater Gargadon Shops? He wrote articles for SCG I believe; was a semi-pro. I just can't remember his name.
@Winterstar I'm not a Doomsday expert, but I find it hard to imagine that the deck would be very strong if Gush were restricted. It would probably be playable, but weak. It might look more like Legacy Doomsday.
gha. There was a thread on this on the previous Mana Drain; called blue prison, I think. The basic problem is you can't reliably flip Erayo without having a lot more moxes than average... at least 6-7 more (1 petal, 2 chrome, 3 opal, 1 mana vault). Then your manabase becomes really vulnerable. Second, Arcane Lab plus Erayo is also a non-bo if the Lab is played first; so we ended up cutting Arcane Lab. Third, you totally can lose to an early threat that comes down before Erayo flips; there's not really enough room left in the deck for a robust draw & tutor & answer package. 4th, its not clear this 2-mana enchantment is at all better than Oath of Druids. Finally, Arcane Lab probably is awesome in this meta, but a deck based around Eidolon of Rhetoric is probably a lot better.
Along the lines of what @hankzhong said, isn't this deck just better without burning wish? It makes comboing faster and more consistent, and frees up enough space in the board to have a good shops matchup while not ignoring stuff like dredge.
I mean, adding oath to combat shops is still a great tactic. In a meta defined by shops and mentor-control, a deck like storm that already has a good control matchup, if it could be tweaked to have a better shops matchup, could be a real force.
I feel like Vault/Key is one of those things that is best tossed into a deck with another plan A., or at a minimum a very powerful plan B. It's such a low investment, especially in any build where Key already has other advantages, that it's easier to just toss in and oops your way into infinite turns.
I played it in Painter at a local event a few weeks back and it worked out well. It's also in Belcher, which has such absurd velocity that it's not hard to find the combo. Both are stone dead to Null Rod, though.
@shawnthehero I mentioned Restoration Angel as it was played in part to kill Jace. They cast their 4 mana planeswalker and you respond to their Brainstorm trigger with a 3 power flier. It was a sign of JTMS's dominance in the NE (which you alluded to).
And yes, Shawn, Jace is a very good card... If I expected Big Blue and Oath to be more popular, I would think him a major player going forward. Unfortunately, I think Mentor and Young Pyromancer decks are going to be the the more popular and that is not good news for our 4-mana friend.
I saw Sylvan Library in one of Rich Shay's decks from a while ago and gave it a try. I haven't been impressed so far but I've only played about 4 events with it. Most of the time it is too slow. Sometimes I can't afford the life. When I get an extra 3 cards out of it it's incredible but that doesn't seem to happen all that often.
The miracle is probably a better candidate. The problem is that it shifts Jace activations into your opponent's turn. Not that we haven't all dreamed of "Your end step, cast Time Walk. Resolves?" I assume the card got thoroughly tested in Legacy, and it's not like you see it in RUG and BUG decks there despite 4x Brainstorm and 4x Ponder.
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