@Dumpsterac1d That scenario is insanely unlikely. If you're casting Laboratory Maniac without casting the Doomsday, you're in bad shape. You should be keeping that shitter in your hand to remove to Force of Will.
But what do I know? I have only played Doomsday variations since 2004.
Changed Cruise to Mana Drain, sideboard changed Dread to Spitters and cut third Leyline for another Mana Drain. Went 4-3 in P9 challenge. Losses to Dredge, Esper Mentor, and Montolio (Tks Shops). Beat Dredge, UW Standstill, Blue Moon, and UWR Mentor. Main deck feels pretty good at this point. I might want to change 1 of the colorless lands or the basic swamp to some other land (Bayou or Trop). Sideboard is very tough to figure out. You need certain cards like Cage to not auto lose to Oath but maybe Oath is so small a % it is worth skipping? They would just be more Leyline anyways though. Spitters are great against White Eldrazi and Grixis but suck against TKShops and Mentor. Idk what to do with the board from here.
Vintage has been in a pretty sweet place recently where the board actually matters. Therefore there's only a certain amount of do-nothing you can afford to play. Thirst is definitely taking a backseat to Gush in the do-nothing race, however the exact wrong conclusion to draw is that "only Gush decks are good"
People are increasingly spending their mana on multifaceted tactics like planeswalkers, Baleful Strix etc. Storm combo is moving towards Dark Confidant and Pack Rat of all things. I expect to see more of this going forward.
You see this a lot in Standard where card advantage comes in more forms than just "card draw spells". Vintage players and analysts would do well to think about that.
@Serracollector Even if this did work, "Take your opponent's next turn" is not as good an effect as "win the game."
This is probably worth considering anyway, if we're talking about effects that cost 10ish mana. There are a lot of single cards that do better than this - if there weren't we would see a lot more Mindslaver in non-welder decks.
@Brass-Man No... Oh, crap... no my brain just farted onto your website. I meant to say that more and more slots are being taken up by Swords to Plowshares (another vintage card, with a name that is syntactically structured like... noun preposition noun, and apparently is stored in the same toy bin in my head... Seemingly I was in a rush, and grabbed out the wrong name.)
The point I was going for, that I didn't at all make, was that with more 1 for 1 spot removal. A draw engine of some kind doesn't seem out of the question for Shops. I think Endbringer for example, seems like a pretty strong include in Eldrazi, since it has the words "draw a card" printed on it. The times I've seen any sort of blue deck beat Eldrazi or Shops lately, have been games where the blue 1 for 1 removed the threats while resolving at least a draw spell and getting ahead and finding more removal, while the Shops or Eldrazi deck eventually flooded with lands.
Anyway, that's what I was going for. I'll not edit so that other people can potentially laugh at me... no, Force is maybe at an all time low in value right now... because I think Storm is pretty bad right now with all the Thorns and Missteps and Thalia's running around. Everyone is almost preboarded for it anyway. That plus so many Caverns makes Force pretty bad.
Thanks alot guys I'll check those sources out and get to tinkering with something and toss a list up after get something slapped together. I was also thinking of an and old list I had fun that someone posted many years ago but cant find any longer that used Urza's/Mishra's baubles, Arcane Denial, and Plagiarize and wanted to put it back together just for fun any remember anything at all about the list beyond that? Also off topic here what happened to the board? I remember it being sold to SCG some years ago.
For what it's worth, Uba stax as a whole handles the deck pretty well:
Maindeck it has 3-4 Ensnaring Bridge, 3-4 crucible with 4 wasteland 1 strip Mine with 3-4 bazaar to find them. I feel like sticking an ensnaring bridge is almost always just GG, and having 5 strip mines to slow them down is huge.
Watching LSV biencarnate himself as Reid Duke tonight and bury Randy Buehler's white Eldrazi under a seemingly unending rain of Swords to Plowshares... that was fun. It also forced me to notice some interesting things about Gush decks beating Aggro Midrange decks (Kikashi Aggro I like to call it), specifically Eldrazi in this case... trading 1 for 1 against decks that have no draw engine at all is really really good.
Humans, and Hatebear and Eldrazi have no drawing cards at all... what a bunch of psychopaths. Just trading down resources, and then resolving any drawing spell at all, seems to give the Gush deck a huge advantage. Its when drawing spells get locked out that the blue decks find themselves in big trouble, while the biggest weakness of the Aggro type of decks may yet prove to be that they can just be attacked by blue decks, or any deck that refills it's hand for that matter, simply by trading 1 for 1 in cards and slowly pulling ahead with drawing cards... would one actually board in more drawing cards against these types of decks? Is there a cheap drawing spell that remains playable through thorn effects used by these decks? Mulldrifter seems not powerful enough, yet almost close. Certainly a deck with 4 Gush, 4 Mulldrifter, 6+ Swords/Paths, and any sort of Snapcaster or Flippy Jace effects, would be a nightmare for Eldrazi right now....
I wonder what other people think about the possibility of beefing up draw as well as removal, as a possible way to attack these Aggro decks... as well as what this says about the potential importance of Spirit of the Labyrinth in the matchup.
@wfain Nothing close to thirst. Thirst you can pitch a card that is already in your hand. You also want to be the one to choose what is binned regardless if you have snappy/welder/ect. or not. For instance, I specifically want to bin my high CC with a Welder out, everything else I'd prefer to draw. @MaximumCDawg You are correct your opponent deciding the pile, likely makes it dramatically worse.
I agree, and I retract my out agro statement, Shops with strips and crucibles may be ahead of eldrazi, we'll see:) Def exciting news and if the eldrazi decks are for real they seem to really stick it to Blue:)
I ended up playing this deck at the Minneapolis GP.
I did take out the Accumulated Knowledge and replacing it with 2x Abrupt Decay and 2x Preordain.
Here is a quick and dirty TR:
Round 1- I went 2-0 against 4c Mentor. Both games had me pretty low, but the power of Griselbrand and storm got me out of it.
Round 2- Lost to Merfolk 1-2. Game 1, I got run over by island walkers, game 2 I stormed off, game 3 I lost to a Cursecatcher, wasteland and light mana hand.
Round 3- Beat Grixis/Pyro Delver 2-0
Round 4- Lost 2-0 to Dredge. Game two I had two Leyline of the Void in the opening hand, and an Oath out on turn 1 or 2 (but no Orchard), but he drew all of his Naturalizes so I couldn't capitalize.
Round 5- Beat 5c Humans 2-1. Game 1 I hard cast a Griselbrand after wiping his board with a balance. Game 2, Thalia and 3 Glowriders MUDed me out. Game 3 I had a double Oath hand and fought through a Naturalize and Containment Priest. Griselbrand beat for 3 turns.
Overall, I really liked the deck. The Abrupt Decays turned out to be too good to not run. The wish board utility was fantastic and the ability to just win with some moxen and and Hurkyl's Recall was great.
@rcwraspy I've tried it but I'm not sure how I felt about a tutor that puts a card on the top of your deck. I have considered, and will probably try Mystical Tutor as well as Temporal Mastery. It seems cute but when it works, it works.
Gotcha. You mentioned Vampiric so I assumed the top of deck clause didn't much matter.
@chaosofslayer Ive been using Tezzeret AOB and it works really well, especially since I've also jammed the vault-key into the deck as well. Its incredibly fun to play and seems like it has decent game against the field so far.