L1 Judge here. If I were called to the situation you described in your first post, I’d rule that player B’s explanation is correct: Player A putting their Gisela in the graveyard indicates that they chose to apply the damage doubling effect first, which is a legal choice for them to make. Player B’s choice of applying the damage reduction effect first is also legal, so there’s nothing to do here: Player A’s Gisela is dead, Player B’s Gisela is alive, and they can continue with the game.
Note that it doesn’t matter whether Player A knew that they could choose in which order they apply the replacement effects. Player B gets an advantage for having a superior knowledge of the rules, but that’s how competitive Magic works.
You did not include any combo builds of Oath. I have been playing Saheeli Rai Oath with great success and I know that the old Brian Kelly Salvagers build is still OK. I have seen Paradoxical Oath on MTGO and it did win. I am not sure if these are of any interest to you but the style of these decks are very different since they win in a very different ways and fight the field in very different ways.
I look at Oath as 3 types of decks - Control, Combo, and Planeswalker
The control builds have the core counterspells - 4 FOW, 4 MM, 2 Flusterstorm and 2 creatures plus some defense.
Combo builds vary greatly with Time Vault, Yawmoth's Will, Paradoxical Outcome or in my case Sun Titan and they have some way to lock the game down for a combo style finish.
Planeswalker builds are the Brian Kelly style decks with Inferno Titan and 3 or 4 differrent planeswalkers.
I have built all of these decks and I have tested them on paper. I do not play Oath on MTGO for various reasons but I am seeing that you may choose a different style of Oath based on where you are playing the deck.
The combo builds compete well against Shops, Dredge, and other combo style decks like Paradoxical Mentor, but these builds have some trouble with blue decks depending on you decks counter package and defenses.
The planeswalker deck appears to be the most versatile against the field but they are also the hardest to play.
The control style has issues with Shops and Dredge but plays well against blue and combo.
I do not like the idea that there is a best deck here, just like several Shop players and Dredge players will tell you there are several versions of those decks that perform differently in the meta-game.
...contains some metrics to influence the game-play experience that they believe would somehow increase the program's profitability.
Tinfoil hat time!
Nah, just recognizing that it's a good rule of thumb to err on the side of assuming corruption in an American institution rather than lack thereof. :-)
As for the correct number and identities of Oath targets, I would say it varies, but I do not recommend less than three unless you're playing one of the terrible cards to mitigate that (Memory's Journey, Gaea's Blessing, or heaven forbid, Krosan Reclamation). That dead slot is probably just better as creature #3.
Chrome Mox, while a dreadful accelerant in many lists particularly on the control side, is surprisingly nice in Oath since you can realize some utility for the otherwise chaff cards in hand, whether they are uncastable creatures, inapplicable nuisance counters v. Shops g1, or redundant copies of Oath of Druids. I liked it a lot, especially as it can help make Tolarian Academy viable.
@gkraigher Some lists run Viashino Heretic, which looks like a decent hedge against shops? It feels a little slow compared to I donno...Shatter...but the extra damage, and the 1/3 body mean that it can hold off a revoker. Worth running at all in the main?
So reaching out to the more experienced pilot, what are the hardest scenarios to deal with here? It seems like T1 Fetch --> Basic island ; T1 Workshop, Mox ---> Revoker on Chandra --> Ravager ; T1 Orchard, Mox --> Oath can be a real challenge (I know, no kidding), when this deck doesn't have the snap answers that hatebear type decks can pack.
I love the flavor and variety of what red is doing here, and Blood Moon is just such a beating when it's working, but I guess as I play this deck against others in a gauntlet, I find that it's slim on answers in game one and being so draw dependent means that having a plan is critical. Plus there's never a moment where the deck "goes off" but is sort of hoping that the blood moon, null rod, bridge lock holds long enough for us to Rabble them to death. In any case, the flex slots where Hanoweir Garrison might not be an auto-include or 4 of. There's so much jank out there in red you'd think there'd be just the right thing somewhere...
Earlier you mentioned Misstep, is that a thing here?
Thanks for all suggestions and help!
@wretchedcamel I think the only place he can be played might be 93/94. I had a goofy Living Plane/Tim/Instill Energy deck put together for 93/94 that was able to squeak out a few matches but only after playing the long game as a control deck. I might try again and bring it to the Eternal Central Event this year. At least i'd score a few creativity points.
A local named Dan played Junk Reanimator in our proxy tournament yesterday. I don't know his record off hand but he finished 6/14 in Swiss + 1, so I'd guess that's 3-2. Here's his decklist. Sorry for the formatting - we ran out of deck-reg sheets, so he resorted to a page from his lifepad.
I have played similar lists without having power and found that 2 snap, 1 clique is a great split. Sol ring is bad generally. Running 4 wasteland, 1 strip is a must and I run 3 factory 1 faerie conclave for manlands. I agree with the use of moat if you can get/borrow one. Balance has always been bad for me...like every time I cast it. I run a maindeck fragmentize and a disenchant. Spell snare is better than 2 mindbreak trap. Shops is a tough matchup and I would run a stony silence and a maindeck energy flux as a hoser. 3 swords is a must. Overall I think you’ve got the right game plan just a few small tweaks. Test against shops and oath a lot as they can be really tough matchups and require tight play to navigate. Hope this helps. Just my opinion and you can take it with a grain of salt
@nba84 I’m sure it’s a budget issue, but there are things like Cabal therapy, Surgical Extraction, Meddling Mage, etc where differentiated cards can be beneficial, even if the other card is strictly better.
I really love tezz and time vault that you suggested in your list. It made my deck a little more explosive and could steal a win from nowhere, espelcially when I have an army of trinket mages for key already.
@p3temangus I will not deny there are certain games he does feel mediocre. But other games he’s just boss and has been my main win con many games.
I’ve also tried out search for azcanta for the scry effect running 3 bobs and a search. That card also seems good but pretty mana intensive once it flips.
The last paper tournament I played I removed the Bobs and won all my non-shops matches but was pretty stuck against shops which drove me back in this direction. Not saying I am correct in that assessment but I’ve been trying to feel out the best this since then
@serracollector said in Bazaars in Dredge:
Well if we are talking any number, then a deck of say 30 bazaars and 30 bloodghast would be about as optimal as they get right?
Maybe some version with 4 ghast, 4 hollow one, 4 brw, 4 nether shadow, 4 riftstone to turn mana on?
It's funny, I actually miss Metamorphs in the main deck and tended to sideboard them out. The reason I ultimately dropped them is the same reason I sided them out of the main deck--playing them after game 1 opens up the opportunity for big blow-outs due to removal. I kept running into situations where I would play a Sphere turn one, and Metamorph turn two, to which the opponent would respond with something like Ancient Grudge or Smelt on the Sphere.
Expedition Map has been amazing for me and the utility lands are a big reason for that. But before your suggestion of Ports, I was becoming ambivalent about them too. However, adding the Ports meant having more lands to get to the activation cost which made Maps much better. The two synergize as well, since the Ports and Maps both put pressure on the opponent's lands.
Of course, the biggest liability for Map is Misstep. For that reason, I tend not to play it in the early game against decks that have Misstep. But that's ok, because Map generally shines in the mid to late game. By that time, opponents have either pitched their Missteps, discarded them, or can't afford them through Spheres, Tangle Wires, Ports etc.
I've gone a total of 17 - 4 across three leagues and the P9 challenge with the above list (with a change here and there). Missed out on the top 8 yesterday by losing in a super-close, grindy final match in the swiss, and then was eliminated on tie breakers.
Looking forward to hearing about the card you're trying out.
(edit: my 5-0 list from yesterday is here: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-vintage-constructed-league-2018-01-29)
@dataspot said in What cards are you excited about?:
Azor's Gateway: Ignore the transform side. Think of this as a 2-mana artifact that can "loot" for 1 each turn. The exile versus discard is relevant, given how easily the graveyard is accessed in Vintage, but it might be good.
If you've seen the combo deck that's playing it, I wouldn't ignore the transform side at all. It can easily tap for 10+ mana.
I for one actually think Nezahal is on par with Sphinx of the Final Word. Having a Mystic Remora attached to it is pretty great actually. It's a bit harder to protect from Swords since it doesn't have hexproof, but if your opponent needs to dig for that Swords he's in bad shape because you'll draw a lot. The great downside is that is has no evasion and that can hurt your clock a lot and make it impossible to race a Mentor.
Zacama seems good for the destroy artifact/enchantment ability, but it seems too pricey and Inferno Titan already takes care of most of the problems in Shops these days anyway.
The other 2 I don't see playing. Azor's abiltiy is too expensive and the cip trigger is just "kinda" useful. Zetalpa is just a big dumb beater so no.
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