Yeah, I mean, this is a Cog. It's a card that does something unique and its worth knowing about, but it has no machine in which to put itself at the moment. it doesn't work in Vintage playable builds right now. I plumbed the Gatherer today and came up blank on things to do with him. If that one card from Mirrodin that was Survival of the Fittest for 1 cc artifacts allowed you to pitch creatures, you'd be in business, but that requires artifacts to pitch. So... yeah.
You know what it most reminds me of? That one Zombie from... M13? The one with Liliana of the Dark Realms? There's a Zombie that comes back to your hand when you play a swamp. Loads of fun in casual with that one blue Illusionist that lets you pitch a card to get basics (forget his name, too!) but totally unplayable in Vintage.
And yet, because Nature's Claim exists, this card is probably still resigned to the garbage bin.
Overstated, because there are many Vintage decks that do not and would not wish to run green. This card now means that you do not need to run green or red to combat Shops.
I don't think there is any question this will see meaningful Vintage play.
The Kismet ability is very weak, since it affects neither artifacts nor lands -- I'm more interested in the life-gain trigger. Is there any infinite-life combo enabled by this card? Varchild's War-Riders will quickly accumulate you a large amount of life, if you have some way to stop the tokens from attacking (Moat, Illness in the Ranks, etc).
This card is a great way to make useless counters, yes.
There is a huge difference between this and the Reservoir card people are chatting about. Reservoir combos with itself to deal 50 damage. Tower gives you a bolt every few spells. I'm really not impressed. Put this counter generation ability on that other card that puts something from your deck into play, and THEN we are talking.
very intriguing card. Probably not good enough for vintage, but seems like a huge upgrade to every 3 CC mana of any color rocks.
Since most of the decks I play are colorless, the card would have been more interesting if it produced Colorless mana to me. So I could cast eldrazi and whatnot under blood moon.
Thank god we got another token generator for Gush decks... it's been too long!
More seriously, how much better is this than Talrand? While he might not give you X/X tokens, isn't the average power of guys you're creating more or less the same? With Talrand, your Probes and Preordains can become 2/2 fliers, rather than 1/1s. As it's the low CMC stuff that makes up the backbone of the Gush shell, I suspect that might be more relevant than than living the dream of triggering this with a Delve spell (though Gush and FoW are obviously nice).
The recursion is nice of course, but probably not necessary given the prevalence of tiny Jace and/or Snapcaster.
I dunno. Not convinced. But hey, that's never stopped me playing a fun-of before...
The big difference is that your token generator isn't a dude. That has pro's and con's. If Talrand for example was a 2UU Enchantment that would confer benefits and drawbacks.
It's an excuse to try to build with Scuttling Doom Engine. You know you want to. It's a shame that it is a sorcery.
Also doesn't seem terrible with Trike or a Tangle Wire that has zero counters, except that it would be really hard to cast in those decks.
I dont think letting your opponent play extra lands is a problem at all in most matchups, most of the time when you are loosing to shops you are struggling to even find one land drop a turn, this card doesnt make lands magically appear in your hand from a 15 lands deck which most vintage decks are. As far as gush is concerned, this card negates one of your spheres for one turn whenever your opponent gushes and that's about it in most cases.
Also if your opponent gets to 0 cards in hand when you are on shops, then things already went very wrong for you and this drawing them cards is the least of your worries (not to mention that you must have been playing pretty badly if you played this when there was any indication that they could dump their hand quickly or already had done so)
@Water0 it seems like we got a misunderstanding here. I thought we where talking about @spook s post:
Does not have haste - so much weaker against Dack.
to which @ajfirecracker replied that dealing 3 damage to a planeswalker on ETB still deals with the planeswalker, so having haste to kill the dack isn't necessary. I was understanding your comment on that
Deal 3.. to their planeswalker? It doesn't say player on there anywhere.
As that you misread the card and where trying to say that in fact it wouldn't handle dack. Thats why i reposted the card text. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I really like this card, but 4 cmc is a real concern. I could see a BUG type deck with a draw engine like:
2 Rashmi, Eternities Crafter
2 Sylvan Library
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest, though it's not really a draw engine.
And perhaps Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and/or Snapcaster Mage as well.
But Jace might just be better.
@BazaarOfBaghdad Thanks, I appreciate the sentiment, but I did already apologize for seeming rude. In written forums like this it can be very difficult to understand exactly what someone may or may not have meant, we tend to add out own imagined inflections as we read things.
I'm agreeing with Storm that this is an alternate WinCon in storm decks. You drop this guy turn 1, alongside a Gitprobe, and a Discard effect, or a ritual tutor, then next turn, you attempt to go off, if they fluster your storm spell your still smacking them for 13+ with a dude to the face.
@wfain Nothing close to thirst. Thirst you can pitch a card that is already in your hand. You also want to be the one to choose what is binned regardless if you have snappy/welder/ect. or not. For instance, I specifically want to bin my high CC with a Welder out, everything else I'd prefer to draw.
@MaximumCDawg You are correct your opponent deciding the pile, likely makes it dramatically worse.
Very interesting and streamlined decklist. I might have to give this a shot a tourney sometime!
Just a couple questions. Why not run Mox Emerald for added help vs. spheres and another way to cast flashback on grudge? Does the deck just not have that kind of room? Turn 1 Thing seems like it could be good at times.
Also, how were the two pyroblasts? Did you feel like they came up often enough as a blowout card? I might consider some number of steel sabotage if shops was giving me problems. Just a thought.
Anyhoo, really nifty list. I will have to test it out real soon. Thanks man!
Looks like your connection to The Mana Drain was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.