@islandswamp there is no good end to this. No way long term they maintain and release cards for two different online games that are both full game magic (duals never was full game engine or had every card in the sets that were released). Also no way they ever past cash to people on the value of their collections. Can you imagine the next board meeting where they try to explain that huge expense to them? If MTGO eventually is closed and if they aren't paying people on cash which I think are reasonable assumptions then I don't see what they can offer that would make MTGO people happy. Certainly porting over a collection that can be traded and sold for one that can't wouldn't satisfy the masses.
@thecravenone Which somehow reminded me of the time my buddy told me he choose Bazaar of Wonders when he cast Revoker against his Dredge opponent. He won that game and told the guy "You should have probably activated your Bazaar" before he left.
@chubbyrain Thanks for finding and sharing this! Those are all pretty spicy lists, especally the Geier Reach Sanitarium and Spirit of the Labyrinth soft lock in Oscar's list. Cavern of Souls is my favorite pillar, and I'm glad it hasn't crumbled.
Canopy would see a ton of play if it was fetch-able. I'd like to think that it should be considered a staple for Dredge. Its getting a very badly needed reprint, and I think you should see an uptick in how often the card is played with that.
Back when Massacre was more of a staple I played Plains-less W/g hate. They've printed enough faux savannahs that you can reliably play those colors without it (Razorverge, Canopy, Brush, Cavern).
Mike, I do have plans to update the book, once there is enough that has changed in Vintage to provide a necessary update for metagame context, Banned and Restricted movement, or playable printings. I don't feel that is the case quite yet.
Mark already specified at least 3 times in the last 2 days they aren't going to. Technically it can't mean never since the game may be around for 10 more years, but it's kind of unrealistic to think of as possible design space.
Plus, PWs are characters and are special/unique. There's not really any reason to make non-legend walkers. It's as likely as making a legendary creature that's not supposed to be a 1-of and nameless.
edit: "It won't happen until maybe it does happen" - this doesn't seem to mean anything? That's true of everything if we are getting really technical. I can't begin to see how that's even a reason to believe that it will happen, much less makes it 'likely'.
@brass-man thanks Brassy! The Enlightened Toolbox deck is coming along, though likely Brendan will make some big changes now with the Mentor boogeyman restricted, maybe I'll ask him to post his new list when he gets the chance :)
I have a general policy position that, as a matter of principle, cards/strategies need to prove their dominance over time to merit restriction. The reason is essentially implicit in your point here: that the metagame needs time to adapt, and to demonstrate that it is incapable of adapting, to warrant the extraordinary use of an external policy intervention to address it.
As a practical matter, that means I oppose knee-jerk restrictions when new problems crop up. We need time to see whether dominant decks are truly dominant in a sustainable way, or whether they will fall back the earth.
That framing should suggest why I don't believe 3+ months into this metagame is too little time to take another action. This isn't a "new" metagame in any meaningful sense. It's not like we entered a brave new world post April, and the problems we confront today are wholly novel.
The pre-4/24 and post-4/24 metagames are extremely similar based upon MTGO Challenge Top 8s, except that the post-4/24 metagame is simply the more concentrated version. Neither of the problems that the DCI identified in it's 4/24 policy announcement - the strength of Mentor or the oppression of Workshops - have diminished since the restriction.
Any new restriction would be a stronger prescription for the same ailment, not a Rx for a new one. If we were talking about a new problem, I'd agree with you here.
I was surprised that you found Tragic Lesson so interesting; it seems to be that it's a big dud. I listened to you discuss how it bounces lands so it actually loads your hand with 3 cards, and how it has similarities to Thirst for Knowledge and Gush, and all of that. At the end of the day, though, I think you missed the forest for the trees.
The forest is this: Tragic Lesson costs 3, and for that price, you get to replace the card and dig 2 deep into your deck. This is Divination territory in a format where we can draw 3 mana for U.
Yes, you can also bounce your lands to generate mana, save them from wasteland, or simply keep more cards in your hand if you need to do that. But, these are situation-dependent uses.
The only use case that is likely to come up reliably is generating mana. "Right," you say, "and that's a lot of the reason why Gush is so good." Kind of. Gush is also free to cast, so the act of tapping UU and Gushing to replay a land generates mana. With Tragic Lesson, you have to spend 3 to get the ball rolling, so all that a replay does is gives you the option to play it for 1U if you do so at sorcery speed (because it has to be your turn still to get the land drop). Is a card that is situationally a Predict good?
Spending 3 mana to counter a wasteland is generally not a workable solution, since there will be many situations where the mana denial strategy prevents you from ever getting there. I love me some Rack and Ruin, but it sees no play over 1 casting cost removal spells.
And then we come to the comparison to Thirst and Compulsive Research. Thirst at 3 mana digs 3 deep and puts them all in your hand; and then it lets you put an artifact halfway into play by binning it. That's a ton of reliable, non-situational value that is better than Tragic's best case scenario.
This smells more like Research. You trade sorcery speed and 3 cards with discard for instant speed and 2 cards plus shenanigans. And while, as you mention, people tinker with Research, it realistically sees no active play today.
All in all, I think you guys may have gone too deep into this card. It's not a very nice-looking forest.
Looks like your connection to The Mana Drain was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.