[AKH] As Foretold


  • TMD Supporter

    The only way this sees play is alongside Suspend spells because a 2U enchantment that does literally nothing for a whole turn after it resolves is nowhere near good enough. And even with Suspend spells, why go through all the hassle of trying to resolve this plus another spell and clogging your deck with otherwise uncastable cards instead of just...not doing that? I just don't see it.



  • @Sledger said in [AKH] As Foretold:

    I'm less interested in how this casts suspend cards and more of how it behaves as a sort of mana rock. As it ticks up it helps combat thorn effects, it can help tie together a somewhat ropey manabase, or simply let you leave up mana while still deploying spells (or a spell, as it were). In formats like Legacy and Modern it gives you a way to play through a Blood Moon or Back to Basics. I'm not sure it's actually good at any of that, but that's the aspect that interests me most.

    This is a much more reasonable train of thought. It's basically a fancy Carpet of Flowers variant. If a deck with blue can afford to drop this and wait out a Workshop deck until it hits critical mass than it may find a singleton to be useful. It's the "can afford to drop this" part that worries me, but Energy Flux has seen its share of play.


  • TMD Supporter

    @The-Gremlin-Lord Energy Flux also (effectively) wins the game against Shops when it resolves. All this does is kind of, sort of, help you cast spells. I don't think this card has a big enough impact to be playable.



  • Im not understanding the lack of amazement in this card. Drop this turn 1, turn 2 cast a free cantrip, and cast time walk, after that literally everything in your deck is free (since derpstep, probe, gush, and FOW are free already). This is a 3 mana Omnipotence for most blue based decks after its been in play for 2-3 turns. How is that not broken as fuck?

    @Chase_Dagger fair. Still, omnipotence for 3 mana that allows 1 free spell a turn, Im in.



  • @Serracollector Ominipotence is not limited to one spell per turn.


  • TMD Supporter

    @Serracollector Casting it on turn one requires a lotus, a mana crypt or combinations of moxen and sol ring, this in no way makes cantrips free, you have to invest multiple cards to get this out and then you have to wait for it to come online when you would have been better off using that mana you used to play it to cast a cantrip and get yourself ahead in the game. It seems very likely like the games where this card is cast your opponent will just bury you in card advantage. It is much worse than Omniscience, "free" spells like Gush and Force are going to be nearly impossible to cast because you will be less inclined to hit all of your land drops now that you have all these free spells and you spent at least two cards to get this engine going and have less cards to pitch to force.



  • @Serracollector If you are playing Omnipotence (which I assume you're not because it's actually Omniscience), you are not playing to cast 2-3 mana spells. You want to cast 15 drops or 11 drops or whatever.

    This card is Brain in the Jar - It looks good in Vintage but in actuality is unplayable garbage in a format with broken, undercosted spells, and punishing mana denial.



  • Its only good function is casting the Suspend 0 cards. None of them see play in Vintage though.



  • @MaximumCDawg

    Hmm I'm not so sure that is true. As Foretold....Strip mine go. Wasteland go. Engineered explosives, free time walk go again. Ghost quarter, free mentor go. Wasteland, free Jace, win.

    This card also lets you start playing spells with converted mana costs you cannot normally play. Off color things etc. Plus every tutor for an instant card becomes a crazy 2 for 1. A normal demonic tutor for ancestral is a nice 1BU draw 3 spell. But with this out that is 0 mana draw 3 between the 2 turns. I think a really low mana very disruptive deck with this sounds pretty amazing to me. I think you have to play a bunch of instants to get "two uses per turn" out of this to make it worth while though.



  • @Serracollector said in [AKH] As Foretold:

    Im not understanding the lack of amazement in this card. Drop this turn 1, turn 2 cast a free cantrip, and cast time walk, after that literally everything in your deck is free (since derpstep, probe, gush, and FOW are free already). This is a 3 mana Omnipotence for most blue based decks after its been in play for 2-3 turns. How is that not broken as fuck?

    @Chase_Dagger fair. Still, omnipotence for 3 mana that allows 1 free spell a turn, Im in.

    In combination with Lotus, Time Walk and cantrip most cards are good. I could think of many better things to do with my Lotus though.


  • Administrators

    @Griselbrother said in [AKH] As Foretold:

    In combination with Lotus, Time Walk, and cantrip most cards are good. I could think of many better things to do with my Lotus though.

    Have to agree with @Griselbrother on this one.

    If we assume your hand is Black Lotus, Brainstorm, Time Walk, As Foretold, at the end of your second turn you'll have gotten a free Brainstorm and a free Time Walk.

    If we assume your hand is Black Lotus Brainstorm, Time Walk, Jace the Mind Sculptor, then at the end of your second turn you'll have gotten FOUR Brainstorms and still have cast the Time Walk, and you have a Jace in play.

    If your hand had a Monastery Mentor instead, You're attacking twice with 3 Monks by the end of your second turn, and depending on what you draw off of the Brainstorm there's a nonzero chance you win before they get another turn.

    I'm not saying there's no use for this card, but if there is one, it has to be a scenario where As Foretold is better than common alternatives, and it has to be in a deck that can maximize the chances of that scenario happening. Try and figure out what it does better than anything else?



  • Hi, how does this card work if you have multiple of them in play at the same time? Still one free spell per turn or one per copy of As foretold in play? I think from reading the card it's probably once per turn but thought I'd check to be sure. Thanks in advance for your help.



  • @kistrand Wait for the release notes.



  • @kistrand release notes will be best but since the last line refers to itself, "where X is the number of time counters on As Foretold." you can read the card as, "where X is the number of time counters on ~this~." It refers to itself. So multiple As Foretolds should each allow you to play a spell for free.

    201.4. Text that refers to the object it’s on by name means just that particular object and not any other objects with that name, regardless of any name changes caused by game effects.



  • ok, thanks to @Khahan and @fsecco for the answer. I think the X part makes sense when I think about it.



  • @Brass-Man Agree with your example, and I think it does show that As Foretold requires a bit of "building around" to be effective (and is probably never tier one in vintage regardless). I've been doing some paper testing trying to abuse Ancestral Vision with As Foretold in a "Foretold Mentor" deck, and having access to four extra Ancestral Recall is quite a thing. The main concern is that As Foretold is a bit slow to hit the board (meaning you might be too far behind already) and, as in my example with Ancestral Visions, takes up a lot of card slots in your deck if you want to abuse it (I've tested with 3 AF and 4 AV). But I truly believe that it's in combination with suspend cards (and probably Ancestral Visions mainly in vintage beacuse, hey, we like our draw-threes) that As Foretold might hold its greatest potential.



  • @Khahan I just noticed that this was also stated in the release notes: "If you control multiple As Foretolds, you may cast one spell for each of them paying 0." I'm gonna try some decks with As Foretold+Ancestral visions to see how it fares. If it turn out to be only good enough as a "for fun" card then so be it, no harm in trying and for fun is also fun ; )



  • This post is deleted!

Log in to reply
 

Looks like your connection to The Mana Drain was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.