[AKH] Harsh Mentor


  • TMD Supporter

    I like it as a sideboard card against shops decks, time vault key, and a few other fringe decks I'm sure.



  • @gkraigher said in [AKH] Harsh Mentor:

    @joshuabrooks

    fetch lands, wasteland, bazaar - each opponent is playing at least one of those types of lands.

    sensei's top - trashed

    time vault key - nope, it's no longer an autowin.

    The flavor text is exceedingly apropos.

    "Fight through it."

    Shocking your Dredge opponent a couple of times is unlikely to change the fact that you die on turn 3.

    The immediate thought with this guy is certainly hatebears. I could see him in a more aggressive deck. Played early enough, he could deal enough damage to allow your Elementals or Monks to win a turn earlier.

    Quick note on Vault+Key - there's two activations required to take each extra turn. Facing down this duder, from >=17, a player only has 4 Time Vault turns to find an answer and that answer can't require something that will trigger duder again.

    @p3temangus said in [AKH] Harsh Mentor:

    Is this bettor or worse than Pithing needle? Better b/c of misstep but worse b/c of plow everywhere? This does do work against Ravager Shops, heck even trying to ballista this to death costs 4 life.

    Neither. It's just different. It doesn't shut anything off. But it does put a tax on everything. If a well-placed Needle is your out, this guy won't help you.


  • TMD Supporter

    Mono-Red could become a thing? Berserkers, Magus of the Moon, shops hate, this guy. While maybe not tier 1, could certainly crush some dreams on the hatedeck circuit.



  • @joshuabrooks said in [AKH] Harsh Mentor:

    Mono-Red could become a thing? Berserkers, Magus of the Moon, shops hate, this guy. While maybe not tier 1, could certainly crush some dreams on the hatedeck circuit.

    8 Moon in Vintage.

    His will be done.



  • @jhport12 said in [AKH] Harsh Mentor:

    I particularly like that it hurts durdling cards like Divining Top and planeswalkers.

    It doesn't affect PWs.



  • @jhport12

    in legacy lands it hits:

    wasteland
    rishadan port
    horizon canopy
    thespian's stage
    karakas



  • Turn 1 this guy + Turn 2 Scab-Clan Berserker is GG versus like 97.6925% of Vintage decks. I am in love.



  • This card is pretty obviously playable. First obvious one in the set to date for Vintage, even more so for Legacy.

    However... how much does it actually do in the current metagame? Against shops, it burns them as they Ballista it dead. Against dredge, it burns them as they Zombie you dead. Against Mentor it does... not really all that much, really.

    I'm not saying its bad or even that it's not playable, I just don't see what it brings to the table in the current metagame.



  • @thecravenone I agree, but in my head if I am slotting this into an existing deck, my Pithing Needle or 2nd/3rd rod effect is what I am looking at dropping. If this is the missing link in a deck that does not exist/is not playable at this moment, then color me interested.



  • @jhport12 Its the cards like port and maze that they use to stall you out. As explosive as the deck can be I have played many a game where they just dicked around behind port and maze.



  • This makes all fetches bolt your opponent. With most non mud/dredge decks running 7+ fetches, git probe, Derpstep, fow, and other life takers, I cant see how this isnt shy of amazing. You cast this guy turn one and they git probe you and fetch thats already a quarter of thier life gone. Follow up with Kabal or Scab-Clan, and you got them halfway done turn 2. And all this being uncounterable off a single cavern.


  • TMD Supporter

    @Serracollector I would love to see a pure red deck in vintage. I'm hoping we get there. I'm no red player, but it would be fun.

    Maybe something that includes
    4 Magus of the moons
    4 Harsh Mentor
    4 Scab Clan Berserker

    4 Blood Moons

    Black lotus
    Mox Ruby
    Mountains... lots of them.

    Not saying this is great or even good. Just could be cool to see.


  • TMD Supporter

    @mdkubiak said in [AKH] Harsh Mentor:

    @Serracollector I would love to see a pure red deck in vintage. I'm hoping we get there. I'm no red player, but it would be fun.

    Maybe something that includes
    4 Magus of the moons
    4 Harsh Mentor
    4 Scab Clan Berserker

    4 Blood Moons

    Black lotus
    Mox Ruby
    Mountains... lots of them.

    Not saying this is great or even good. Just could be cool to see.

    +caverns, bolts, pyromancer, ankh of mishra, maybe null rod or welders. What else guys?



  • Monored hate is a real-ish deck in Legacy, so looking at that list will definitely educate us.

    @joshuabrooks said in [AKH] Harsh Mentor:

    +caverns, bolts, ankh of mishra, maybe null rod or welders. What else guys?

    More mana. We want to power the hate out ASAP.

    • Chrome Mox (easy. everything's red!)
    • Lotus Petal
    • Simian Spirit Guide
    • Ancient Tomb
    • Sandstone Needle!?

    Win-Cons

    • Goblin Rabblemaster
    • Sneak Attack + Fatties
    • Inferno Titan
    • Chandra, Torch of Defiance

    Sideboard:

    • Sulfur Elemental


  • 4 Sulfur Elemental, 4 Bolts, 4 Sudden Shock. You might...might....have to face Mentor. Also 4 Black Vise is a thing. :)



  • @rikter

    A decent number of RG Lands decks switched over from Port to Ghost Quarter awhile ago, I don't know how many have switched back. That makes Port less of an issue.

    Punishing Fire reduces the likelihood that it will stick around. Also, if this card is in an aggro deck (the most likely home), only the loss of Maze really hurts.

    I think it hurts Death & Taxes and Miracles much more.



  • People listing all fancy lands. I think triggering for Fetching is already a big thing.

    For non-artifact critters it hits Deathrite & Displacer and more important Griselbrand!

    Non-critter non-mana artifact that are relevant, I can only think of Sensei, Vault/Key and Engineered Explosive. These might not be the most affected due to renaissance of Rod effects.



  • @tribet

    Crewing vehicles hurts. I played citanul flute to a good finish recently, it hurts that as well.



  • Vehicle as well great point.

    The cards says "on the battlefield". What are the other relevant activated abilities for cards in other zones? Might not be activated abilities but it for sure doesn't affect Fashback, Cycling, Drede (replacement, right),



  • This card is the best one spoiled yet, but unfortunately, I'm not convinced that it's actually playable.

    Comparisons to Pithing Needle, Revoker, or Null Rod are red herrings. The two occupy completely different tactical roles. Needle et al deny your opponent resources, shutting down their key combo cards, blanking their Planeswalker, and/or denying them access to critical mana sources. This guy, with a few exceptions (Time Vault), does not stop your opponent from doing anything; rather, it taxes them for pursuing their strategy (some strategies more heavily than others) and should thus be thought of more as a clock than an answer.

    What kind of deck would benefit from such a clock? TMWA is not the answer; first of all this guy is a nonbo with Moon effects, and second of all, TMWA is at heart a control deck, focused on buying enough time by denying opponent mana to sneak in a win. Mentor does very little to advance this plan, except against Shops, which is already an extremely favorable matchup for TMWA.

    Maybe there is some kind of all-in red burn deck waiting to be brewed, but if so I somehow doubt that Mentor will be the card that tips the scales of the concept towards playability. The main weakness of Vintage burn is that it has very few means of putting up much of a fight against pretty much any other deck in the field after it has exhausted its opening 7, and Mentor won't be changing that.


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