Burning Delver



  • Is there any interest in discussing variants of Delver that use Burning Wish? There was a very short topic on it at the old site.


  • Administrators

    I played with it a bit and enjoyed it, but I didn't end up with any list that felt particularly overpowered. I found that the ability to Burning Wish for Treasure Cruise really changed the dynamic of the card - makes it feel a little bit more like a Merchant Scroll than just an expensive removal spell.

    Still, I'm not sure it's worth the tradeoff. Some of the sorceries I was getting the last time I tested the deck are no longer relevant in the current meta.



  • @ribby said:

    Is there any interest in discussing variants of Delver that use Burning Wish? There was a very short topic on it at the old site.

    Your thread title intrigues me. Got a sample list or some more info?


  • TMD Supporter

    I tried this out for a while last summer I think it was. I don't think I ever got the right mix of wish slots vs. normal sideboard slots but the intention was to essentially play more Time Walks in UR Delver/Pyromancer. I just looked up my last list on MTGO and it has Deathrite Shamans in it for some reason so I don't think it's worth sharing.

    The wish targets were Time Walk, Treasure Cruise, Shattering Spree and Grapeshot. I think I would replace Shattering Spree with Pulverize if I were to try it again now. It would be pretty sweet to play URw and include Balance in the board. Good? Maybe not.



  • I've got a sketch of a list that I've been testing on and off. No tournament deployment but two-fisted results have been ok. I'm concerned about a few things, namely:

    • is it even appropriate to merge concepts like this or am I just being fancy
    • this is going to be structurally soft to dredge no matter what I do, is that ok?
    • am I playing too much mana
    • I have enough slots to reasonably fight Oath but I don't really know what the right way is

    Etc.

    On the upside I love some of the ridiculous play you get with this deck that you basically have no access to with traditional Delver shells.


    Main Deck

    Mana

    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Misty Rainforest
    1 Island
    4 Volcanic Island
    1 Underground Sea

    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Pearl

    Offence

    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Ponder
    4 Preordain
    3 Gush
    1 Dig Through Time

    4 Burning Wish
    4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy

    4 Delver of Secrets
    2 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

    Defence

    4 Force of Will
    4 Mental Misstep
    3 Thoughtseize
    4 Lightning Bolt

    Sideboard

    Offence

    1 Treasure Cruise
    1 Time Walk
    1 Tinker

    Defence

    1 Duress
    1 Shattering Spree

    Open

    10 slots



  • I think you are trying to do too many cute things. Also young pyro has to be great in a delver shell with burning wish. I'd go something like:
    -2 sphinx, -1 mox at least, -1 baby jace, -1 burning wish, -1 thoughtseize +1 land, +4 pyromancer, +1 fluster
    and -1 tinker +1 cabal therapy in the sideboard, because burning wish for cabal therapy with a pyro in play has to be the definition of value.



  • @diophan said:

    I think you are trying to do too many cute things. Also young pyro has to be great in a delver shell with burning wish. I'd go something like:
    -2 sphinx, -1 mox at least, -1 baby jace, -1 burning wish, -1 thoughtseize +1 land, +4 pyromancer, +1 fluster
    and -1 tinker +1 cabal therapy in the sideboard, because burning wish for cabal therapy with a pyro in play has to be the definition of value.

    Almost certainly, definitely worried about that.

    One point though: something I've learned from playing this is that Burning Wish has a huge tempo cost and so you need to recoup something back. Wish for Walk is sometimes amazing but that alone doesn't really give you enough in matchups that matter.

    So in many ways I'm trying to keep just the tempo aspects that are really matchup-defining (Delver, Bolt) and then shifting the rest of the deck to be extremely powerful and combo-ish to try and gain edge against e.g. Mentors.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that if the concept is too cute, and we just want to get more Time Walks, I would probably just not even bother because it's likely no better than a traditional list, and very possibly worse.



  • That said, discussing your changes and change in direction:

    Definitely would need to drop a Mox going your route but I think I'd like to go down to 19 mana and just drop most of the Jaces. Too much happening at the 2-slot.

    Thoughtseize becomes less good also when it doesn't lead into Tinker. Just ham a couple Therapies main too?

    What's the best SB color for Delver these days? White still?

    No interest in Balance whatsoever in the Gush mirrors.(directed at another poster) it generally ends disastrously.



  • Wish for walk is only saving one mana from playing Time Warp.


  • TMD Supporter

    Yeah I don't know about Balance. Was trying to think of a castable sideboard sorcery to validate the standard-ish white splash in URx delver. It is potentially high-impact, though. And if the wish targets aren't high-impact then this strategy doesn't make much sense. Most of Delver's cards are similar-ish to each other with the exception of Time Walk so getting more Time Walks that could selectively be other things is appealing.

    When I tried it I had trouble with the 4cc of Wish for Time Walk and in the end it felt clunky and worse than regular Delver.

    However it might be worth exploring again. Because more Time Walks.



  • @Aaron-Patten I get your general point and mostly have agreed to it but an intelligent rebuttal is:

    • it's actually 2+2
    • 1 mana is extremely important and should never ever be underestimated
    • the option to wish for Cruise is the real kicker and the single option that even makes Burning Wish worth considering in any strategy today.


  • Savor the Moment might actually be better than Wishing for Time Walk. You still get to activate loyalty abilities, play a land that you Gushed into hand, get a shot at flipping Delver, and swing in with any new Pyromancer tokens.


  • TMD Supporter

    @AmbivalentDuck I can't imagine that this is true. Untap feels like a pretty crucial step.



  • Perhaps temporal mastery could be wedged into the deck somehow.



  • The miracle is probably a better candidate. The problem is that it shifts Jace activations into your opponent's turn. Not that we haven't all dreamed of "Your end step, cast Time Walk. Resolves?" I assume the card got thoroughly tested in Legacy, and it's not like you see it in RUG and BUG decks there despite 4x Brainstorm and 4x Ponder.


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