TMD Open 18 - Top 8 and Metagame Breakdown



  • Thanks for the amazing breakdown! And what a great top 8! I'd mentioned earlier that it was a wonder that with limited hate in sideboards that Dredge wasn't sneaking on for some surprise beats. Unmask: the classy dredge...



  • @Chase_Dagger Mentor is the best deck against most hypothetical decks. This pushes out a lot of those decks and makes mentor a large percentage of the metagame. Shops then plays a maindeck that crushes mentor and profits.

    Shops has the highest winrate because the metagame is so homogenized. Shops can't build a maindeck that beats an entire blue field with reasonable representations of landstill, BUG fish, merfolk, outcome, and big blue.

    The problem is compounded by the fact that it's clear that shops has the highest winrate but a huge percentage of players refuse to play the archetype. If shops representation (especially in paper) weren't capped by biases you'd see a lot more shops lists teching heavily for the mirror. (Everyone criticizing gush players for building inbred decks doesn't appreciate how much more profitable it is to make an inbred deck when your archetype is a much higher percentage of the metagame.)



  • Travis Compton doing the Lord's work.


  • Administrators

    @diophan said in TMD Open 18 - Top 8 and Metagame Breakdown:

    (Everyone criticizing gush players for building inbred decks doesn't appreciate how much more profitable it is to make an inbred deck when your archetype is a much higher percentage of the metagame.)

    I don't necessarily disagree with the bulk of your post, but it's a little awkward to make this statement about a tournament where there are more shops players than mentor/gush players



  • @Brass-Man I guess I should have been more clear that I was making a general remark on the texture of vintage than the particulars of this tournament (the person I was replying to appeared to be asking a general question). However even if gush was less represented at Waterbury than shops that doesn't mean that people were constructing their decks with that expectation.



  • @Chase_Dagger Thanks for the kind words.

    @Brass-Man I think @diophan's statement should have stated "other Blue decks" rather than just the mirror. When you consider that Pryoblast, Flusterstorm, and Mental Misstep are powerful against not only the Gush (23.5%), but Paradoxical (10.4%), Oath (7.4%), BUG Fish from Null Rod (4.35%), Other Blue decks (9.6%), and Other Combo decks (1.7%), you end up with these cards being good against 57.0% of the field. Taking measures against Shops has much less overlap. Running more lands helps against Shops, Eldrazi, Humans (I actually don't like running too many lands against BUG Fish and Landstill as they have much weaker mana-denial and you end up leveraging the virtual card advantage of a mana-lite build). Artifact removal is good against Shops but I've found it medium against Eldrazi and surprising poor against Outcomes (It's better to stop the outcomes or land a haymaker like Stony Silence than pick off individual artifacts).



  • Huge thanks for doing this guys! You rock!



  • @diophan

    After reading plenty of mentor comments/complaints here on TMD, I feel you have given the best explanation by far. Thank you for this.

    You mentioned: ‘shops has the highest winrate but a huge percentage of players refuse to play the archetype.’

    This is interesting to me. I’ve only been playing Vintage since September 2015, I started with MTGO (of course). While I play Mentor & many other decks in the tournament practice room, when it comes to entering dailies or the P9 I usually go with Shops. I have access to pretty much any Vintage deck, but each time I review the numbers and play test the various matchups, I always settle on playing Shops because the numbers are there.

    I’d rather play mentor gush (probably in the esper colors but I’d settle for jeskai) over feeling forced into playing shops yet again. I play shops because it’s consistantly good and when you play against it even when using jeskai mentor gush you still lose the game one mana short of being able to do something to maybe win or sometimes just anything at all.

    You mentioned: Mentor is the best deck against most hypothetical decks. This pushes out a lot of those decks and makes mentor a large percentage of the metagame. Shops then plays a maindeck that crushes mentor and profits.

    Would I be wrong to say that since Vintage is so polarized between blue decks and non blue decks it’s inevabitle that one blue deck will always rise to the top as the best deck to defeat the other blue as well as have a chance against the rest of the field?

    I’m interested in hearing about what those hypothetical blue deckswould look like. To me the blue decks of Vintage aren’t very diverse, they all have a similar shell. In a format that hardly sees any new playable cards, I’m really suprised to hear players say mentor is a problem. To me mentor is just the new driver of the same old blue Vintage deck. It appears to me that banning or restricting mentor would only cause the format to take a stale and boring step backwards.

    Thanks again for the insightful reply.



  • @Oestrus said in TMD Open 18 - Top 8 and Metagame Breakdown:

    Travis Compton doing the Lord's work.

    Can't tell if you are serious... Taking it as a compliment anyway.



  • @BusOfTheUndead It's absolutely a compliment!


Log in to reply
 

WAF/WHF

Looks like your connection to The Mana Drain was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.