Since it's an Auldus Huxley sort of world just now, and we're all throwing out ideas for the next couple weeks, I feel empowered to submit a deck list for consideration. I won't be able to test this pile of junk in competition beyond my own kitchen table, so on the off chance that anyone was interested in this sort of thing, I'll throw it out there.
I was watching Rich play As Foretold on twitch last night, and comboing it with Ancestral Vision, which is cool tech. In chat, I was surprised to learn that Thorn of Amethyst also combos with Vision to make that draw card playable from one's hand for a generic mana. (EDIT: This was what chat thought but that is not actually how this rule works) That immediately made me think of my favorite ever card, Balance, as well as its unplayable bad cousin... Restore Balance. I thought of a white/blue Shops deck effectively running a ton of Sphere effects into 5 copies of Balance, aka Mind Twist, aka Wrath of God. Here she is... you know... as in Just Say No.
1 Sol Ring
2 Thalia, the small one
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra’s Factory
4 Restore Balance
3 Ancestral Visions
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Chalice of the Void (Is this card good in this deck...?)
This is totally raw, and possibly crap. But since nobody knows what is good anymore, I wonder what ya'll think. Have people tried this before? I would love to see someone test this online since I won't be able to.
@Topical_Island you need As Foretold with Ancestral Visions to get value from the visions you don't have in your opening hand.
I was surprised to learn that Thorn of Amethyst also combos with Vision to make that draw card playable from one's hand for a generic mana.
That's not how the rules work, though it would be unsurprising if MTGO is broken. Unless you're referring to suspending the card then paying a single generic mana when you cast it from exile, that is.
I had no clue that sphere effects allowed you to play cards with no CC for 1 from hand. Does this work from Graveyards to? Is snapcaster mage + thorn + insert card synergistic?
In chat, I was surprised to learn that Thorn of Amethyst also combos with Vision to make that draw card playable from one's hand for a generic mana.
Holy crap, is that right? That seems bizarre because the spell isn't castable normally since it doesn't have a cost (which is different from having a cost of 0). Thorn making it cost one more doesn't seem like it should make castable. Like, null + 1 doesn't equal 1, it equals null.
Well, I am not a judge... Maybe I'm wrong, but that was the chat consensus last night. If I'm wrong I really apologize for wasting everyone's time.
The Atog Lord
You don't need a Thorn to do this. If you have As Foretold, you can cast Restore Balance for free from your hand.
@The-Atog-Lord I am aware... but I want to play Shops to make everyone have as little fun as possible... :)
Is my understanding of the rules correct?
I'm pretty sure you need an As Foretold for this to work.
Restore Balance + As Foretold = 0 mana Restore Balance
Restore Balance + As Foretold + Thorn = 1 mana Restore Balance
Restore Balance + Thorn = uncastable Restore Balance
Topical island, the rules don't work that way sadly. Though if they did I would imagine every shops deck would just play ancestral vision?
Right from the rulings on gatherer -
10/15/2006 This has no mana cost, which means it can’t normally be cast as a spell. You could, however, cast it via some alternate means, like with Fist of Suns or Mind’s Desire.
So a spell that grants an alternate cost can be used to cast these cards that have no mana cost. However sphere/thalia/thorn etc does not grant an alternate cost. They just add to the cost.
@garbageaggro You are seriously telling me that Chat was wrong about rules! Man!... well first time for everything. Sorry for wasting everyone's time. Hope you had fun.
Well I look forward to Rich playing the As Foretold + 5X Balance deck.
Ok then... what does this do?
3 As Fortold
2 Ancestral Vision
1 Time Walk
3 Restore Balance
4 Oath of Druids
3 Paradoxical Outcome
1 Emrakul, TAT
1 Auriok Salvagers
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Dig Through Time
1 Jace the Mindsculptor
4 Force of Will
2 Mental Misstep
1 Mindreak Trap
1 Lion’s Eye Diamond
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sensei’s Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Forbidden Orchard
2 TOpical Island
It probably just dies to Null Rod... but no I didn't forget the spellbomb. Look closely.
I've been brewing a very similar deck for about a year, but using Panoptic Mirror instead of As Foretold. Strictly better, because it's an artifact with shops and also you can balance every single turn of the game. It's not quite there yet though, and INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATINGLY Panoptic Mirror is broken on MODO. Otherwise I'd be testing this deck more every day; sadly I cannot.
RULES QUESTION: Does the effect of a Yawgmoth's Will allow you to suspend a (rather than cast it) out of your graveyard. I'm asking because suspend says "Rather than cast this card from your hand, pay X and exile it with Y time counters on it..." and the original wording for Yawg will says that you "may play cards in your graveyard as though they were in your hand"... but the oracle text just says that you "may play cards from your graveyard"... anyone know the answer?
@Topical_Island I don't think so. I had a similar question about Bosium Strip awhile back, and the resolution was that "Suspend" is not "casting" the spell, it's an ability the card has while in your hand. Just like Cycling.
EDIT: This also means there is untapped design space here: "You may activate abilities of target card in your graveyard as though it were in your hand" to help cycle or whatever.
Thanks,... interesting though that Bosium Strip says "cast" and Yawg says "play".
This also means there is untapped design space here: "You may activate abilities of target card in your graveyard as though it were in your hand" to help cycle or whatever
Not even that would work since cycling needs discarding and you can't discard what's in the graveyard.
@fsecco you know I'm not trying to cycle right?