Yawgmoth's (Bargain Not Will) Unrestrictable?

@vaughnbros Gifts was broken long after it was released. It's only been about 3-4 years since a Big Blue deck like Tinker+Vault was arguably the best deck and it would be right back in the mix if the number of creatures in top 8s dropped a bit.

@desolutionist said in Yawgmoth's (Bargain Not Will) Unrestrictable?:

@Griselbrother Mystical Tutor

@vaughnbros There's a different approach to the game for sure. Back then it was all about getting the exact card you needed immediately and not so much about smoothing draws and playing lands; it depends on how the metagame adapts I suppose.

Well, if a 1UU sorcery speed Mystical Tutor was good enough, I'm sure that Imperial Seal would see a lot more play.

Enough about Scroll. Has anyone got any reasons Fastbond should remain restricted? Right now Mox Opal and possibly Chrome Mox are more powerful than Fastbond.

@Serracollector paradoxical zuran orb combo .dec would be fun and is totally unaffected by rod effects

URg Landstill would suddenly become very good and probably not too fun to play against.

Rod completely shuts down zuran orb..... And landstill? Really? So you drop fastbond turn 1, if they dont have derpstep, then what? Drop 2 lands and Standstill and now you have 2-3 cards in hand and hope one is FoW and the other is a blue card in a 3 color deck? Yea sounds way overpowered......

If Fastbond wasn't restricted, it maybe create some sort of BG lands deck with Gitrog and Crucible or something, but that's honestly not a bad thing.

@Serracollector I second that crucible feels like the most likely place to break fastbond. In some kind of lock combo in Fish with wasteland and Rod maybe?

Heh. Wonder if it could power on some kind of landfall strategy? Lotus Cobra was a thing for about five minutes there!

Can't think of too many other instances beyond (sans gush of course) where you would want to be playing out land like that? But then. Perhaps I am merely too scrubby to see it.

@Topical_Island You got a Break Fastbond deck yet???

Fastbond would be fine in a world where everyone is playing 4 Misstep anyway. If you ask me the biggest argument against unrestricting it is aesthetics since beta ones would skyrocket.

last edited by Cambriel

@Cambriel Hah! You know I actually prefer unlimited since that's when I came to the game. Black border is still "special" in my mind and not just every card printed after 8th edition 🙂 Fastbond is everything I want art in MtG to be in some ways but that is for a different thread...

How would you break it, esp against misstep? Or would it just be misstep bait?

@Topical_Island If there's any red at all (ancient grudge?) the deck should be called "Breakbond, Mountain" is all I'm sayin'

#VintageIWishICouldQuitYou

@BandsWithOthers

4 Fastbond
2 Horn of Greed
5 Fetchland
3 Tropical Island
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Island
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
2 Underground Sea
1 Wasteland
1 Stripmine
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
26
1 Zuran Orb
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Duress
1 Chain of Vapor
32
3 Mental Misstep
4 Force of Will
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Green Sun’s Zenith
1 Gush
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral
1 Dig Through Time
2 Big Jace
1 Brainstorm
20
4 Lotus Cobra
1 Eternal Witness
1 Progenitus
1 Bitter Ordeal
22/60

Wheres the desert land that does 1 damage to opp when it enters the battlefield? And no crop rotation, genesis wave or blue suns zenith?!?!? Come on @Topical_Island. 😉

Bitter Ordeal is sexy tho.

last edited by Serracollector

@Serracollector I have 3 lists... one is all in crop rotation, but it was losing a lot more to my wife's Mentor Deck, via stalling out to Mental Missteps. Getting Rotations Missteped really sucks, but sometimes is just goes of. No doubt that if you just want maximum, smash the goldfish bowl as hard as you can, Crop Rotation is where you want to be.

Blue Sun's Zenith... that is hot. I could test that. (Is it better than just another Horn?... I love the alternate win-con! Maybe take out the Ordeal for it!... Though with Ordeal I reckon you only need to hit it for 3-5 and you have killed most decks.)

Is it plausible to unrestrict Ponder? It's not really better than Preordain and I don't think we would see decks playing 10+ one mana cantrips. Most people don't even play 4 Preordain. When Ponder was restricted (at the same time as Brainstorm, Gush, and Merchant Scroll) I thought it was a little overboard

@desolutionist I actually think Ponder would be even more dangerous than Brainstorm because of Tendrils Decks. The shuffle feature is very good for stitching together that sort of kill.

But you are a lot better player than me, what do you think? I just remember pre-restriction watching decks Ponder then Shuffle then Ponder then Shuffle then Ponder and then... Oh hey! Found it! You're dead.

@Serracollector said in Yawgmoth's (Bargain Not Will) Unrestrictable?:

Rod completely shuts down zuran orb..... And landstill? Really? So you drop fastbond turn 1, if they dont have derpstep, then what? Drop 2 lands and Standstill and now you have 2-3 cards in hand and hope one is FoW and the other is a blue card in a 3 color deck? Yea sounds way overpowered......

Landstill doesn't try to 'go off' with Fastbond. It drops it with or slightly before/after Crucible, wipes your board with Wasteland/Strip Mine, puts up a couple of Factories to chump/kill any creatures you already have and fetches a couple more islands to hold up Mana Drain.

You don't want it in your opening hand; you want to draw into it, because it makes Crucible and Wasteland significantly better. It wouldn't be a Fastbond deck running 4. It would probably run 2.

last edited by twerkshops

@twerkshops Agree about how Landstill would use it, but if it were broken at 2 Fastbonds, you would see at least some Landstill decks at least using 1. I'm seeing zero top 8 decks like that...

@Serracollector a deck with 4 Paradoxical, 4 Fastbond, 4 Horn of Greed, 4 Lotus Cobra looks pretty strong. I don't have a list yet, but this might be the brokenness we were looking for.

@Topical_Island Not saying it would be broken. I'm against it because amping up Wasteland and Crucible probably isn't healthy for the format. Restricted Fastbond forces decks to only run it if they can consistently abuse it every time they draw it (e.g. 4x Gush decks), so you won't have decks popping up with the primary gameplan of assembling Fastbond + Crucible.

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