The state of Blue vs Blue


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  • Is there a good reason to play a finisher that's not Mentor? I'm playing with a Moat deck that use Nahiri as a finisher, but it just seem clunkier than Mentor.



  • @WashableWater I'd argue Mentor is weaker against Thorn decks than Moat or Tinker-Blightsteel. Thorns attack Mentor both on the axis of limiting the number of spells you can cast and with Walking Ballista as an effective answer. Against Blue decks Mentor is compact and hard to deal with, making it one of the most powerful win cons in that matchup.


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    @ChubbyRain said in The state of Blue vs Blue:

    @WashableWater I'd argue Mentor is weaker against Thorn decks than Moat or Tinker-Blightsteel. Thorns attack Mentor both on the axis of limiting the number of spells you can cast and with Walking Ballista as an effective answer. Against Blue decks Mentor is compact and hard to deal with, making it one of the most powerful win cons in that matchup.

    But even then, they need two cards (Thorn and Walking Ballista) to beat your one card (Mentor) and you still walk away with a monk token.



  • Yeah @ChubbyRain is right. Mentor is insane but do workshop decks even run an answer to Tinker these days? No Duplicant to be afraid of!



  • @WashableWater The only two finishers I can imagine running with lots of blue are Oath (which most would consider a different deck, and not really right for this thread) and Tendrils in a controlish Storm build with Paradoxical. I still think that second would be worse than Mentor, or worse without Mentor mixed in. Moat is interesting though, because it is really good against Eldrazi, though so is resolved Mentor. I think Moat is just not that great overall because Shops has such easy access to answers in Hangerback.



  • Does the fish do no work in this turbo xerox land of cheap cantrips?



  • @portland Your question is brilliant, in that it looks like very high quality vintage magic refrigerator magnet poetry. But I have no idea what it means. By fish do you mean the archetype "Fish", or do you mean Mystic Remora, or do you mean something else? What DO you mean?



  • Ah, Remora. Only downside is vulnerabilty to a certain phyrexian mana counter.



  • @portland I actually don't think Remora is very good right now because tempo-blue is just a lot better than the Weissman style, heavy mana decks. Basically, the strategy of tapping mana every turn to play spells and cantrip and create threats is just a lot stronger right now than leaving land untapped and holding up counterspells (which has at time been really really good... see Gifts)

    But with the printing of cards like Mentor, Preordain, Dack, JVP, Cruise, and Dig among others. Tempo or Turbo Xerox style decks have sort of gotten ahead in the arms race a lot, while Weissman style decks haven't gotten much in my opinion.

    I think the Remora goes much better with the sit and wait style for obvious reasons. Although Cronistery Mentor is a thing. I just don't think its quite as good as the straightforward method of directly using that mana to pump out threats and fill up graveyards for the inevitable dig or cruise, I also think that stats prove that. Though I can't really say I would like to play against actual Cron on actual Cronistery Mentor. Maybe without so much Gush, it's gotten even better?

    But add to all this, the fact that Fish is just bad against a pretty big portion of the meta... all the creature decks. That's my opinion.


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