@mourningpalace Yeah... I was just thinking about it in conjunction with Paradoxical. It's corner case, but I'm imagining the situation of Top, Key, and Paradoxical interacting... and it seems pretty tasty.

@Topical_Island So, I have been running EE for the last few daily events, and a bunch of matches in tournament practice rooms. It is only one of in the sideboard right now, but it has been pretty good. Has not come up a bunch yet, but when it's good, it is really good.
But, having played vs. shops quite a bit lately, I am beginning to think the match up is pretty favorable over all. I am not sure my overall win rate against shops. I will look through my MTGO history to try to figure that out. I know that I have lost very few matches against them. Game one is hard, but post sideboard it gets much better.
The deck has a ton of mana sources, good sideboard cards for the match up, and a big scary robot they can't beat.

Looking back I am 7-2 against shops over the last few events I have played in on-line. That does not include tournament practice matches.

last edited by mourningpalace

@mourningpalace Hey, if you get a chance, tell me what you think of EE vs Eldrazi... I am actually going back and forth on it. It looks great 2 for 1ing Thalia and Thorn... but then there are those Eldrazi builds with tons of Null Rod, and then it just sucks.

I want to get Andy to explain why some eldrazi builds do and don't run Null btw... I don't feel like I understand that well.

@Topical_Island I have not played against them since adding it, but it seems like it would be good. Obviously not good against null rod, but you have other ways to deal with that.
Stoney silence is much more problematic.

i dislike vault/key in the meta due to high number of nullrod effects and i'm not a hugh fan uf misstep in the meta eighter. i run 2 snapcasters and a few one offs in those spots. it has less free wins, but i think its more consistant.
i dislike snuff out, its so bad against leovold decks and against opposing thieves/random black creatures.

@Loreno I agree, but I will say that also having Tinker into Monster makes Vault Key a little more ok to run. If they are loading up on Null, then audible to Monster makes it decent at least. The bad thing about Tinker is that it makes a dead draw in your deck. The same thing happens when you run a bunch of Null effects that can be defeated by being ignored.

@Loreno Leo/Thieves is such a small % of the meta now, that snuff out being a dead card rarely comes up. It's good against Mentor and shops.
Null rod is annoying, but as @Topical_Island said, you still have Blightsteel to tinker for. Null rod is also easy to deal with post board. It's stony silence that causes more issue.

I thought I'd see if anyone was still interested in talking about Grixis Thieves.

I like this list that I came across by Tyler Wilcox.

A few thoughts.

  1. I like the idea of jamming Kess into the creatures slot over a notion thief.
  2. Inkwell instead of Blightsteel I assume is to protect it against other Dacks Faydens and exile spells.
  3. Echoing truth and toxic deluge as a way to deal with boards that go wide?
last edited by Brass Man

@bscheidemann Why on earth would there be a counterspell in there with only two mana drains?

@nba84 I’m sure it’s a budget issue, but there are things like Cabal therapy, Surgical Extraction, Meddling Mage, etc where differentiated cards can be beneficial, even if the other card is strictly better.

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