Building Mentor based Control



  • @WashableWater Let me preface this by making clear that, I am not good, and don't know what I am talking about. But I do play a lot of games, and I can at least comment on my experience with regards to two of your questions.

    Strip Mine // Wasteland: I'm very much in favor of waste effects in tempo decks. I'm actually a bit surprised to read that you think people don't play Wasteland much. Before the Gush restriction, Wasteland seemed like it was seeing more and more play in Gush//Mentor, to me at least. The crux of your question seems to be... how come always Strip and never Wasteland, can exactly 1 Strip effect be right? I think it can, but I'd estimate the "proper" number is probably 1 point something. I think Strip plus Wasteland is more often right these days. I think it gives you a lot more game against the whole field, including anyone running Library of Alexandria, Cavern of Souls, Bazaar of Baghdad, Mishra's Factory... etc. Of course the right question to ask is, what can I cut it for that might be better... If you find something better, by all means cut Wasteland. I just haven't found that card. The folks who do seem to be cutting it for a 4th Misstep, or another basic land or some such thing...IMO

    Draw Spells: Holy crap, Dack is awesome. Have you guys heard of this guy, he is phenomenal. In practice around the ole' homestead, we are trying out the full 4 of Dack. In deference to the drunken master and his various compulsions, Dack is great in that same slot. When is the last time someone drew too many Dacks?... In all seriousness, I can see two reasons not to run 3x or 4x of this dude. The first is mana curve. If you are running some Menendianesque, ultra turbo xerox, really low land count deck, then sure, having 4x of the same 3 mana planeswalker could screw up your curve. But land counts have been up in blue-tempo for years now, (See the above discussion on the inclusion of Wasteland) so the three level seems quite reachable, after all, aren't we already running Mentors in this deck anyways?
    The second reason is exactly Phyrexian Revoker. If Revoker names Dack, then other Dacks become stranded and useless... I mention this by way of pointing out that, assuming that Dack is good against the deck you happen to be playing, having multipl Dacks in hand is probably better than having multiples of any other planeswalker because of his loot ability. (Baby Jace you say?... ok) So you could run 8 of these things with next to no redundancy downside. (Compare this to other powerful cards like, Null Rod, Oath... or even restricted stuff like Time Vault or Necropotence. All those cards are very powerful, conceivably a second copy is some sort of insurance, but a second copy doesn't really get you anything that you didn't have before. A hand with exactly 2 Null Rods that resolves 1, is the same as a hand with 1 Null Rod that resolves 1 (You see my point). SO... Phyrexian Revoker is a threat to Dack's wonderful Dackness... but aren't we already running a ton of mainboard Swords as well as Fragmentize in the board with some number of By Force? The metagame already demands that we are running cards that can get rid of Revokers and free a Dack.

    So how about the assumption that Dack is good against the deck we are playing... He's good against Tempo Blue, he's good against Shops (maybe not what he once was, but still ripping off a Mox is great against mana denial. Also, targeting for pilfer on a Ravager is at least a Fragmentize, as is targeting a Ballista. Not to mention that if you have some Stony Silences floating around, the combination of those two together is nigh unbeatable if they hit the table together against Shops, since any big creature will get robbed....) He's good against Eldrazi for similar reasons. He's good against Paradoxical. (How about stealing the Defense Grid?... feels good man.) If you're looking for more draw, I might just try out an extra copy of Dack... heck, go to 5x... why not?

    (Bonus pontification: EE is awesome!)

    Good luck to you man, lemme know what you try and how it works out for you.



  • @Topical_Island Sorry to be picky, but the idea of stealing Defense Grid made me chuckle. :)



  • @BazaarOfBaghdad Hey, If you can't laugh, what's the point in being alive right?

    (To be more specific, the corner case I happened to be imagining, was the one where Storm plays Grid and says go, with the implication that they are going off if they untap... only to see Dack hit the table and pilfer the Grid... a corner case I grant you... and perhaps hilariously bad...)



  • @Topical_Island said in Building Mentor based Control:

    @BazaarOfBaghdad Hey, If you can't laugh, what's the point in being alive right?

    (To be more specific, the corner case I happened to be imagining, was the one where Storm plays Grid and says go, with the implication that they are going off if they untap... only to see Dack hit the table and pilfer the Grid... a corner case I grant you... and perhaps hilariously bad...)

    What does that do?



  • @Griselbrother it lets you have the grid on your side instead of on the opponent's side ; ) lol



  • @kistrand Ha... I'm sorry guys. Want to delete that part, but I'll leave it up. Was I conflating a Tinkering story someone else was telling me earlier? .... Maaaayyyybeeeee? But I certainly, definitively stand by the points I made about not being good, and laughing.



  • The real story was that he stole the Defense Grid, sacced to his Atog, cast Insult/Injury, swung, and then cast Fling on the Atog ftw. Obv guys, thats why Dack is so strong. Atog and Dack are best buds.



  • @Serracollector Naaa Dude... Shrapnel Blast was totally involved... (In fact the real story, now that I've gone back, had even less to do with anything that we are talking about... nobody cares...) "Never miss a good chance to shut the hell up." ~ John Wayne



  • How has Dredge been for other people? I'm feeling like I only want enough Dredge hate to get the matchup to around 50/50, but I don't have an amazing handle on how much each individual hate piece impacts the matchup. Does anyone have more advice for how much Dredge hate achieves how much success?



  • I have seen most Mentor lists run 4-6 hate pieces. IMHO 2 each of Preist, Cage, and RIP, since those all also hit Oath (RIP if its Sun Titan Oath for example), have been the best combination. It also depends on if your list runs the singleton strip, or wastelands as well as those are hate on bazaar.


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