Where is Oath right now?



  • @Khahan said in Where is Oath right now?:

    In any given tournament you can get the unbeatable nutz draw or the "where is my other combo piece?" draw and be left hanging. In years past this was Ok because the format was different. Oath held up better in the long game while it dug for answers. Today if it stalls there are too many decks that are just too fast for it. Even creature decks like mentor and ravager shops can beat it.

    To be fair, there were a lot of games that I won just because I was a bomberman deck as well as an oath deck. One standout game was against shops where they landed double t1 grafdigers cages and a foundry inspector. I went t1 land, lotus, salvagers. His t2 saw tangle wire and another creature. I played land go, his t3 saw no sphere effects so I recurred lotus in my upkeep, made infinite mana in my main, hard cast griselbrand and over half of my deck until the rest of the combo was assembled. I also won at least 2 games against mentor just with salvagers recurring ee and pyrite spellbomb with no lotus.

    Bomberman is a vintage worthy deck, and running it alongside oath does a couple of trade offs:

    1. You have a really shitty mana base. No helping this, oath decks almost universally require running risky mana bases.
    2. Your tutor for salvagers also often gives you access to the other combo pieces. It also costs less than other tutors normally run by bomberman.
    3. Your yawgmoth's bargain gains you life and deals 7 by itself.
    4. Since you only have to run the one salvagers and none of the other creature tutors you can have a higher density of countermagic in the deck. And awkward or not they still make a huge difference in the current meta.
    5. Since you are already in white, you have great answer cards for anything you might face so long as you can anticipate it in your sideboard plans.
    6. EE is just plain awesome, especially in oath and bomberman.


  • @brianpk80

    What list are you using to start out with Evil Oath? I'd really like to see what you have and maybe do some testing.


  • TMD Supporter

    Saheeli seems to work for some folks but I am not one of them. I can Oath into Griselbrand and draw seven in response to a plow which is huge.



  • @Islandswamp said in Where is Oath right now?:

    Saheeli seems to work for some folks but I am not one of them. I can Oath into Griselbrand and draw seven in response to a plow which is huge.

    I was, of course, a big Saheeli Oath fan when I entered the world of MTGO Vintage in late December through March. After a multi-month hiatus, though, I tried a Gush-less Saheeli Oath tonight for a few casual matches... it was not good.

    Obviously, there is a lot of tweaking I can do, but I have to say that losing Gush really hurt. It's not just Mentor--although Mentor is the worst offender--all the other blue decks have much more compact threat packages. And Saheeli Oath had a more bloated threat package than regular Oath, which means it is really bloated compared to Mentor.

    While I love the ability of Sun Titan to be hardcast and I find Saheeli to be a uniquely-fun planeswalker (if underpowered), it doesn't seem to be an environment where that matters.

    It seems like Oath only really works as the base-blue deck that is less optimal than Mentor, but has a better Shops matchup. And if that's the case, then you have to run the tightest threat package possible since you already have the clunkiness of 4 Oath.

    I've never played Griselbrand/Emrakul Oath, but I think I have to start practicing that now.



  • @jhport12 I recommend giving Paradoxical Oath a whirl. Make sure you have access to at least 3 Abrupt Decay to fight Null Effects/Taxing Effects/Containment Priest/Cage... Fun Deck.



  • I looked up some lists and I have to admit that playing so few counterspells feels scary. I saw one list with Misstep, 3 Thoughtseize and no Forces. I saw another with only 4 Forces.

    It did make me think, though: What is the role of countermagic in an Oath deck, especially against a Mentor deck? In my Saheeli Oath, I often did 4 Force, 3 Misstep, 2 Mindbreak/Flusterstorm for a total of 9 counterspells. It's interesting to question how many were necessary vs. having other cards.


  • TMD Supporter

    @jhport12 said in Where is Oath right now?:

    @Islandswamp said in Where is Oath right now?:

    Saheeli seems to work for some folks but I am not one of them. I can Oath into Griselbrand and draw seven in response to a plow which is huge.

    I was, of course, a big Saheeli Oath fan when I entered the world of MTGO Vintage in late December through March. After a multi-month hiatus, though, I tried a Gush-less Saheeli Oath tonight for a few casual matches... it was not good.

    Obviously, there is a lot of tweaking I can do, but I have to say that losing Gush really hurt. It's not just Mentor--although Mentor is the worst offender--all the other blue decks have much more compact threat packages. And Saheeli Oath had a more bloated threat package than regular Oath, which means it is really bloated compared to Mentor.

    While I love the ability of Sun Titan to be hardcast and I find Saheeli to be a uniquely-fun planeswalker (if underpowered), it doesn't seem to be an environment where that matters.

    It seems like Oath only really works as the base-blue deck that is less optimal than Mentor, but has a better Shops matchup. And if that's the case, then you have to run the tightest threat package possible since you already have the clunkiness of 4 Oath.

    I've never played Griselbrand/Emrakul Oath, but I think I have to start practicing that now.

    The thing about Griselbrand is that usually the worst-case scenario is that you cheat it into play, opponent goes plow/karakas/jace bounce/whatever and you draw seven cards to counteract that or to simply find a time walk and activate Oath again. You can also build your Oath deck in such a way as to enable hard casting griselbrand by making sure you run full moxen, mana crypt, sol ring, and tolarian academy. It's still tough to do, but I've cast Griselbrand quite a bit honestly. And it's funny when you hard cast gris and your opponent was banking on Fragmentize to stop your plan!

    This reminds me that one of my "crazy Vintage stories" was the time that I hard cast Griselbrand... from my graveyard! Play Lotus, tap lands plus academy, crack lotus, yawgwill, replay lotus, griselbrand. GGs. :D



  • I've played two tournaments this week with Punishing Oath, learning the world of Grisel-rakul. I have gone 4-4 (once was because MTGO locked me out, so I'll call it 4-3).

    Everyone says Shops is the top deck, but in 8 matches I haven't faced a single Shops deck. I have hit 4-5 PO Storm decks (usually with some Blightsteel or Key/Vault antics), 1 PO Oath, and 2-3 Dredge decks.

    The deck feels less clunky than Saheeli, but not as much as I might have expected. It also loses the ability to hardcast your Oath targets. And getting my Oath targets without Dragon Breath has been treacherous when I'm low on life.

    Speaking of, Dragon Breath is a little underwhelming as I've only been able to use it twice. One of those times, though, it really mattered. Mana Drain has been worthless--I don't always have UU and 2-mana is very expensive for a counterspell in Vintage I am discovering.

    I miss having access to white for Stony Silence, it feels very maindeckable right now.

    The thing I am most marveling at, right now, is just how problematic having a bulky threat package is. It can be really hard to compete against a deck that chooses to have a 3-4 card package of any combination of:
    --Mentor
    --Tendrils
    --Tinker, Blightsteel/Key/Vault
    --Jace

    Oath is 6 cards minimum: 4 Oath and 2 targets. And you usually have to add a Dragon Breath or 2 Jace or Vault/Key as back-up win condition. I think I would feel differently if I had faced a single Shops deck, since that is what Oath is supposed to prey on.



  • @jhport12

    When playing punishing oath, did you find punishing fire to be useful in its own right (i.e. proactively) or did you use it primarily as an answer to containment priests and other hate?



  • In 8 matches I have used Punishing Oath ZERO times. But, as I noted, I haven't played a single Shops deck--or a White Eldrazi for that matter.

    My experience with MTGO has ALWAYS been that the meta shifts dramatically every few days. People careen from Shops to Mentor to PO Storm w/Tinker, I think.

    Dredge and Oath players seem to stick to them, but that just maybe my speculation.


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