Where is Oath right now?



  • I've played two tournaments this week with Punishing Oath, learning the world of Grisel-rakul. I have gone 4-4 (once was because MTGO locked me out, so I'll call it 4-3).

    Everyone says Shops is the top deck, but in 8 matches I haven't faced a single Shops deck. I have hit 4-5 PO Storm decks (usually with some Blightsteel or Key/Vault antics), 1 PO Oath, and 2-3 Dredge decks.

    The deck feels less clunky than Saheeli, but not as much as I might have expected. It also loses the ability to hardcast your Oath targets. And getting my Oath targets without Dragon Breath has been treacherous when I'm low on life.

    Speaking of, Dragon Breath is a little underwhelming as I've only been able to use it twice. One of those times, though, it really mattered. Mana Drain has been worthless--I don't always have UU and 2-mana is very expensive for a counterspell in Vintage I am discovering.

    I miss having access to white for Stony Silence, it feels very maindeckable right now.

    The thing I am most marveling at, right now, is just how problematic having a bulky threat package is. It can be really hard to compete against a deck that chooses to have a 3-4 card package of any combination of:
    --Mentor
    --Tendrils
    --Tinker, Blightsteel/Key/Vault
    --Jace

    Oath is 6 cards minimum: 4 Oath and 2 targets. And you usually have to add a Dragon Breath or 2 Jace or Vault/Key as back-up win condition. I think I would feel differently if I had faced a single Shops deck, since that is what Oath is supposed to prey on.



  • @jhport12

    When playing punishing oath, did you find punishing fire to be useful in its own right (i.e. proactively) or did you use it primarily as an answer to containment priests and other hate?



  • In 8 matches I have used Punishing Oath ZERO times. But, as I noted, I haven't played a single Shops deck--or a White Eldrazi for that matter.

    My experience with MTGO has ALWAYS been that the meta shifts dramatically every few days. People careen from Shops to Mentor to PO Storm w/Tinker, I think.

    Dredge and Oath players seem to stick to them, but that just maybe my speculation.



  • Hey guys, I got in a few events at GenCon with Oath. I'm not going to do a full report, but here are the highlights.

    Here's what I played:
    Saheeli Oath

    4 Oath of Druids
    3 Saheeli Rai
    2 Sun Titan

    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Time Walk
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Ponder
    3 Preordain
    1 Dig Through Time
    1 Treasure Cruise
    2 Sensei's Divining Top
    2 Dack Fayden
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    4 Force of Will
    3 Mental Misstep
    2 Mana Drain
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Balance
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Beast Within
    1 Detention Sphere

    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Sol Ring
    4 Forbidden Orchard
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Volcanic Island
    2 Tundra
    4 Misty Rainforest
    1 Library of Alexandria
    1 Strip Mine

    Sideboard:
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Ancient Grudge
    3 Nature's Claim
    4 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Null Rod
    1 Wasteland

    Overall I felt really good about Sun Titan being my monster. Whether you're just establishing dominance by recurring threats or you're winning the game outright, there's no mana cost to doing so. Plan B is hard-casting the titan, which I did several times. This version of the deck is also much better against Dredge than most other versions because Titan typically comes into play with a crypt - you start locking down your opponent right away. Either that or Elesh Norn just tears their board apart and requires a bounce spell.

    The GenCon metagame is always heavier on Oath and Shops, and lighter on blue-based control. I'm not sure exactly why that is (pretty sure I'm part of the problem, though) - that's why the Wasteland was in my board and that's also why I didn't consider cutting a Forbidden Orchard. I could imagine cutting one orchard in a meta with no other Oath decks, but that wasn't going to happen here.

    I loved most of what Sun Titan had to offer, but I kind of hated Detention Sphere. I didn't cast it once, and I was never in a situation where I thought to myself "Man, I really wish I had a detention sphere right now." It costs a ton of mana and the target is pretty narrow. I think I'd rather play a Seal of Primordium, maindeck Null Rod, try to find a way to get Pernicious Deed into the deck, or otherwise get creative with that slot. I was glad to never have drawn Memory's Journey, but there were a couple games where playing it would have really come in handy. Still not sure how I feel about that card in a deck that already has too many "necessary evils."

    Overall, the deck ran well. It plays a control game first and resolves an Oath when the coast is clear. It's got great game against Shops and Eldrazi due to the way it tries to win, and the match-up against other blue decks is no worse than it would have been. I'll also say that I never wished I had drawn Punishing Fire or Life from the Loam either, and I would have been really grumpy if any of my lands had been a Grove of the Burnwillows instead of a blue source. I feel like Titan is the way to go, and this deck is probably at least a little better than its current tournament result history. It's hard to say what's going to happen on Monday with any real specificity, but the metagame will still include colorless taxing decks, blue decks, and dredge. This is still going to be a good choice.



  • Do you know who got the bye on Saturday? I got it on Friday. Saturday I lost round 2 after a Jace Cosplayer pointed out that I had Jace in my hand to the whole event.



  • @the-duressed Detention Sphere was meant as a maindeck answer to Planeswalkers, Mentor Tokens (if you whiff on your Oath trigger), and Big Thalia, who stops the combo. It sounds like none of those was particularly prevalent in your metagame, so cutting it is reasonable. It's also a way of increasing the Blue count for Force as Oath tends to be lighter on Blue cards than most decks.



  • @the-duressed just a question relating to null rod over stony silence: is that due to the colourless mana cost?



  • @nedleeds Mark Ace (a player from the Bay Area). I haven't seen him on TMD.



  • @nba84 pretty much. Enchantment hate is obviously important against this deck, and artifact hate is a waste of time. With that being the case, I didn't see a reason to not go for the colorless option.



  • @the-duressed fair enough. Also, what do you see Saheeli Oath's advantages being over Salvagers Oath?



  • @nba84 The plan of "I'll just win by casting my dude" is much stronger. Griselbrand is too hard to cast and Salvagers don't go anything without Lotus and something else. With Titan you won't combo out to win on the spot, but you've got a big body and you're likely to get significant additional value.

    In general, I don't think you can play Oath without a viable plan B. Show and Tell isn't as good anymore because of the popularity of Containment Priest. So I want to go another direction, and I think Sun Titan is one of the better options. The Salvager/Griselbrand deck doesn't have a viable backup plan without playing more black tutors than most builds typically can without decimating their own mana bases. It can just Oath straight into Grafdigger's cage, but it needs removal against other forms of hate. That's not as strong of a plan because hate can appear in duplicate or triplicate and you therefore need just as much removal - a much tougher situation than just casting one good spell.

    (Edited like 6 times for clarity)



  • @chubbyrain I'd have to double check my blue count, but I wonder if Engineered Explosives is better in this capacity - gets tokens when brought in from the graveyard, but infinitely more playable from the hand. It's still not much of an answer to planeswalkers, but it's actually useful in the other scenarios.

    Edit: Although now that I see how the BR update shook out, I'm leaning more toward a main deck Stony Silence. (Stony instead of Null Rod because people pack MD answers to artifacts)



  • Just got back into MTGO Vintage with the advent of the new leagues. I've tried Punishing Oath 4 times and Saheeli Oath once.

    Saheeli Oath still feels way too clunky in spite of recent restrictions--the threat package is just too many cards. Not particularly happy with Punishing Oath, either. I have only played one Shops deck and instead have faced a ton of Paradoxical Outcome decks.

    What play style do most people adopt? Sometimes Oath feels like it should play as a control deck, but then my hand is always full of crap. When I go aggro, I just get hit with multiple hate cards. I have died with zero artifact kills in the face to 2 Grafdigger's Cages waayyy too many times this past week.



  • I have been enjoying Punishing Oath list with mixed results recently in the Leagues 4-1 and 2-3 (couple of great games I lost VS BKelly and a WEldrazi opp yesterday).
    Anyways, Im quite satisfied with the deck and I dont think it is too far off but I was thinking last night that "maybe" the sideboard plan should focuss on being semi-transformational rather than relying on more hate cards.
    Im honestly thinking of possibly throwing in 2-3 Pyromancer and maybe a Mentor in my Sideboard. Then to rely on Dack + PunishingGrove, etc... to generate value while chumping Spirit tokens and outdrawing my opp who loaded up on Priest, Cage, Natures Claim, Krosan grip, Ray of Revelation, Karakas, JtMS... At this stage, probably only thinking of trimming: 1 Grisel, Dragon's Breath, 1 Oath. From my side, remove 1 Natures claim, 1 Bolt, 1Misstep.
    I might give it a swing tonight.



  • Mouhahahah just finished 5-0 in the league with my transformational side!
    Screw you Priest & Stuff. Below is pic of my last game!alt text



  • and previous Opponent round 4 game 3. Screw you Cages! alt text



  • This the Oath I played at a vintage trail. I went 4-0-1 and got 3rd place losing a game in second round of top 8 mainly due to mis-plays.

    MAIN DECK:

    4 Oath of Druids
    4 Saheeli Rai
    1 Dack Fayden
    4 Force of Will
    4 Mental Misstep
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Time Walk
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Ponder
    1 Dig Through Time
    1 Treasure Cruise
    1 Imperial Seal
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Memory's Journey
    1 Pernicious Deed
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    3 Preordain
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Blood Moon
    2 Sun Titan
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Black Lotus
    4 Forbidden Orchard
    1 Forest
    1 Island
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Scalding Tarn
    SIDE BOARD:

    1 Ancient Grudge
    3 Abrupt Decay
    3 Nature's Claim
    4 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Show and Tell
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

    I think winning the turn you Oath will be critical. I know there was Tendrils and Vault/Key but some way to just win the turn you Oath appears to critical. Also, board disruption over board control also appear to critical elements. I played Blood Moon and Pernicious Deed main deck and they were very important factors.



  • List with transformational side here
    PS: And it seems that k_f_chicken also finished 5-0 on that day with a different Punishing Oath list



  • @tribet It seems that you still play Oath after transformation boarding. Isn't it a pretty bad card then, possibly just getting a Pyromancer out of the deck?



  • This is an individual who has clearly not accepted Griselbrand as their lord and savior... The salt is real out there folks! http://oi66.tinypic.com/33tkxvq.jpg


Log in to reply
 

Looks like your connection to The Mana Drain was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.