@nba84 The plan of "I'll just win by casting my dude" is much stronger. Griselbrand is too hard to cast and Salvagers don't go anything without Lotus and something else. With Titan you won't combo out to win on the spot, but you've got a big body and you're likely to get significant additional value.
In general, I don't think you can play Oath without a viable plan B. Show and Tell isn't as good anymore because of the popularity of Containment Priest. So I want to go another direction, and I think Sun Titan is one of the better options. The Salvager/Griselbrand deck doesn't have a viable backup plan without playing more black tutors than most builds typically can without decimating their own mana bases. It can just Oath straight into Grafdigger's cage, but it needs removal against other forms of hate. That's not as strong of a plan because hate can appear in duplicate or triplicate and you therefore need just as much removal - a much tougher situation than just casting one good spell.
(Edited like 6 times for clarity)
@chubbyrain I'd have to double check my blue count, but I wonder if Engineered Explosives is better in this capacity - gets tokens when brought in from the graveyard, but infinitely more playable from the hand. It's still not much of an answer to planeswalkers, but it's actually useful in the other scenarios.
Edit: Although now that I see how the BR update shook out, I'm leaning more toward a main deck Stony Silence. (Stony instead of Null Rod because people pack MD answers to artifacts)
Just got back into MTGO Vintage with the advent of the new leagues. I've tried Punishing Oath 4 times and Saheeli Oath once.
Saheeli Oath still feels way too clunky in spite of recent restrictions--the threat package is just too many cards. Not particularly happy with Punishing Oath, either. I have only played one Shops deck and instead have faced a ton of Paradoxical Outcome decks.
What play style do most people adopt? Sometimes Oath feels like it should play as a control deck, but then my hand is always full of crap. When I go aggro, I just get hit with multiple hate cards. I have died with zero artifact kills in the face to 2 Grafdigger's Cages waayyy too many times this past week.
I have been enjoying Punishing Oath list with mixed results recently in the Leagues 4-1 and 2-3 (couple of great games I lost VS BKelly and a WEldrazi opp yesterday).
Anyways, Im quite satisfied with the deck and I dont think it is too far off but I was thinking last night that "maybe" the sideboard plan should focuss on being semi-transformational rather than relying on more hate cards.
Im honestly thinking of possibly throwing in 2-3 Pyromancer and maybe a Mentor in my Sideboard. Then to rely on Dack + PunishingGrove, etc... to generate value while chumping Spirit tokens and outdrawing my opp who loaded up on Priest, Cage, Natures Claim, Krosan grip, Ray of Revelation, Karakas, JtMS... At this stage, probably only thinking of trimming: 1 Grisel, Dragon's Breath, 1 Oath. From my side, remove 1 Natures claim, 1 Bolt, 1Misstep.
I might give it a swing tonight.
This the Oath I played at a vintage trail. I went 4-0-1 and got 3rd place losing a game in second round of top 8 mainly due to mis-plays.
4 Oath of Druids
4 Saheeli Rai
1 Dack Fayden
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Dig Through Time
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Imperial Seal
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Sylvan Library
1 Memory's Journey
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Blood Moon
2 Sun Titan
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Nature's Claim
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Show and Tell
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
I think winning the turn you Oath will be critical. I know there was Tendrils and Vault/Key but some way to just win the turn you Oath appears to critical. Also, board disruption over board control also appear to critical elements. I played Blood Moon and Pernicious Deed main deck and they were very important factors.
@aelien, yep depending on the matchup, I often leave some numbers of Oath into the deck (roughly speaking 2 against Control or Mirror, 4 MUD/Eldrazi/Dredge). I adjust the number of Orchard as well, cutting on lands VS Control and 99% of the time swapping 1 for Mountain.
If I suspect that Cage is their main answer, I Oath regardless to fetch/draw and play my Mentor or Pyromancer. If Im unlucky and draw Emy, I just Dack/Jace him away.
Priest decks are a little more annoying to play around but I generally max out on Abrade against them or I dig hard to naturally draw and play Pyro & Mentor.
Can you guys help me understand the appeal of Inferno Titan in this deck? I'd seen it popping up in various online events, and now it's clearly one of the center stage Oath packages due to the Eternal Weekend performance.
What's the appeal? It feels like it has less impact than Griselbrand or Sun Titan (assuming sunny doesn't completely brick), while sharing the same other features - primarily our ability to hardcast it. I have a hard time visualizing myself slamming down an Inferno Titan and being like "Aha! You're soooo in trouble now!" Seems pretty boss against fish strategies and maybe Eldrazi, but I don't know about blue match-ups or shops.
I'll freely admit that I haven't tested it out due to my own lack of availability, but in my brain I'm just having a hard time making sense of it.
@the-duressed Not an expert here, but I think largely it's that Titan is castable late game, as well as being good enough in the current meta to dominate the board and win.
Traditionally the tension here is that you would really like to be able to just hardcast your giants if the game goes long, but that probably means playing things that don't quite slam the door shut quite as hard as huge fatties like Griselbrand and Emrakul (though even Emrakul is considered slow by some). So an ideal creature is one where it's castable in a pinch, but where you win a huge % of games when you Oath into it early. Seemingly, and this is where I'm not an expert, Inferno Titan is such a creature in this meta, which makes sense given that there are so many tokens and robots floating around.
@the-duressed I think it's also in a good place now because it deals with PWs too, so for the most part it avoids being bounced by Jace. The fact that Shops is basically a creature deck now also helps.
Sun Titan can brick pretty hard and be just a card that returns a few lands to play. The main problem with the Grisel/Emrakul package is being more vulnerable to Cage and worst in the mirror, since you depend more on Oath to win and can't hardcast your creatures.
@topical_island I see what you're saying, and I really like Sun Titan for a lot of the reasons you mention. But what surprises me is that a turn 1-2 Oath into Inferno is enough to seal up the game most of the time. It must be the fact that it kills in two attacks if there's nothing in the way, but does substantial crowd control if there are opposing critters on the board.
@fsecco That did help. Knowing that the Jace needs to be held in their hand in order for it to be an answer to Inferno Titan is a good piece of information.
You're both right about why Griselbrand and Emrakul probably shouldn't be the only plan, and I agree with you. Maybe I'm just spoiled by how completely these guys can warp the game with one activation or one attack (when things are going well), but Inferno is going to take some getting used to for me. The one other thing I'll say about him is that you don't have to play Tundras, which is nice.