Just got back into MTGO Vintage with the advent of the new leagues. I've tried Punishing Oath 4 times and Saheeli Oath once.

Saheeli Oath still feels way too clunky in spite of recent restrictions--the threat package is just too many cards. Not particularly happy with Punishing Oath, either. I have only played one Shops deck and instead have faced a ton of Paradoxical Outcome decks.

What play style do most people adopt? Sometimes Oath feels like it should play as a control deck, but then my hand is always full of crap. When I go aggro, I just get hit with multiple hate cards. I have died with zero artifact kills in the face to 2 Grafdigger's Cages waayyy too many times this past week.

I have been enjoying Punishing Oath list with mixed results recently in the Leagues 4-1 and 2-3 (couple of great games I lost VS BKelly and a WEldrazi opp yesterday).
Anyways, Im quite satisfied with the deck and I dont think it is too far off but I was thinking last night that "maybe" the sideboard plan should focuss on being semi-transformational rather than relying on more hate cards.
Im honestly thinking of possibly throwing in 2-3 Pyromancer and maybe a Mentor in my Sideboard. Then to rely on Dack + PunishingGrove, etc... to generate value while chumping Spirit tokens and outdrawing my opp who loaded up on Priest, Cage, Natures Claim, Krosan grip, Ray of Revelation, Karakas, JtMS... At this stage, probably only thinking of trimming: 1 Grisel, Dragon's Breath, 1 Oath. From my side, remove 1 Natures claim, 1 Bolt, 1Misstep.
I might give it a swing tonight.

last edited by tribet

Mouhahahah just finished 5-0 in the league with my transformational side!
Screw you Priest & Stuff. Below is pic of my last game!alt text

and previous Opponent round 4 game 3. Screw you Cages! alt text

last edited by tribet

This the Oath I played at a vintage trail. I went 4-0-1 and got 3rd place losing a game in second round of top 8 mainly due to mis-plays.


4 Oath of Druids
4 Saheeli Rai
1 Dack Fayden
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Dig Through Time
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Imperial Seal
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Sylvan Library
1 Memory's Journey
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Preordain
2 Flusterstorm
1 Blood Moon
2 Sun Titan
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn

1 Ancient Grudge
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Nature's Claim
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Show and Tell
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

I think winning the turn you Oath will be critical. I know there was Tendrils and Vault/Key but some way to just win the turn you Oath appears to critical. Also, board disruption over board control also appear to critical elements. I played Blood Moon and Pernicious Deed main deck and they were very important factors.

last edited by moorebrother1

List with transformational side here
PS: And it seems that k_f_chicken also finished 5-0 on that day with a different Punishing Oath list

last edited by tribet

@tribet It seems that you still play Oath after transformation boarding. Isn't it a pretty bad card then, possibly just getting a Pyromancer out of the deck?

This is an individual who has clearly not accepted Griselbrand as their lord and savior... The salt is real out there folks! http://oi66.tinypic.com/33tkxvq.jpg

@ephemeron said in Where is Oath right now?:

This is an individual who has clearly not accepted Griselbrand as their lord and savior... The salt is real out there folks! http://oi66.tinypic.com/33tkxvq.jpg

TheRuinsWeHold is the Phil Hellmuth of MTG.

I remember seeing @tribet oath into DRS about 4 years ago. Everyone involved was surprised. I'm pretty sure that he won that game though...

@rbartlet hehe yeah that was in semi against Brian Matthew on Moon Shop. Pretty ballsy plays! I dug up the old deck tech/tourney report, good fun reading it again.link here

@aelien, yep depending on the matchup, I often leave some numbers of Oath into the deck (roughly speaking 2 against Control or Mirror, 4 MUD/Eldrazi/Dredge). I adjust the number of Orchard as well, cutting on lands VS Control and 99% of the time swapping 1 for Mountain.
If I suspect that Cage is their main answer, I Oath regardless to fetch/draw and play my Mentor or Pyromancer. If Im unlucky and draw Emy, I just Dack/Jace him away.
Priest decks are a little more annoying to play around but I generally max out on Abrade against them or I dig hard to naturally draw and play Pyro & Mentor.

last edited by tribet

Can you guys help me understand the appeal of Inferno Titan in this deck? I'd seen it popping up in various online events, and now it's clearly one of the center stage Oath packages due to the Eternal Weekend performance.

What's the appeal? It feels like it has less impact than Griselbrand or Sun Titan (assuming sunny doesn't completely brick), while sharing the same other features - primarily our ability to hardcast it. I have a hard time visualizing myself slamming down an Inferno Titan and being like "Aha! You're soooo in trouble now!" Seems pretty boss against fish strategies and maybe Eldrazi, but I don't know about blue match-ups or shops.

I'll freely admit that I haven't tested it out due to my own lack of availability, but in my brain I'm just having a hard time making sense of it.

@the-duressed Not an expert here, but I think largely it's that Titan is castable late game, as well as being good enough in the current meta to dominate the board and win.

Traditionally the tension here is that you would really like to be able to just hardcast your giants if the game goes long, but that probably means playing things that don't quite slam the door shut quite as hard as huge fatties like Griselbrand and Emrakul (though even Emrakul is considered slow by some). So an ideal creature is one where it's castable in a pinch, but where you win a huge % of games when you Oath into it early. Seemingly, and this is where I'm not an expert, Inferno Titan is such a creature in this meta, which makes sense given that there are so many tokens and robots floating around.

last edited by Topical_Island

@the-duressed I think it's also in a good place now because it deals with PWs too, so for the most part it avoids being bounced by Jace. The fact that Shops is basically a creature deck now also helps.
Sun Titan can brick pretty hard and be just a card that returns a few lands to play. The main problem with the Grisel/Emrakul package is being more vulnerable to Cage and worst in the mirror, since you depend more on Oath to win and can't hardcast your creatures.

@topical_island I see what you're saying, and I really like Sun Titan for a lot of the reasons you mention. But what surprises me is that a turn 1-2 Oath into Inferno is enough to seal up the game most of the time. It must be the fact that it kills in two attacks if there's nothing in the way, but does substantial crowd control if there are opposing critters on the board.

@fsecco That did help. Knowing that the Jace needs to be held in their hand in order for it to be an answer to Inferno Titan is a good piece of information.

You're both right about why Griselbrand and Emrakul probably shouldn't be the only plan, and I agree with you. Maybe I'm just spoiled by how completely these guys can warp the game with one activation or one attack (when things are going well), but Inferno is going to take some getting used to for me. The one other thing I'll say about him is that you don't have to play Tundras, which is nice.

last edited by the duressed

@the-duressed Another thing I forgot: Inferno Titan gets rid of Spirit tokens. Sun Titan gets chump blocked by any tokens you produced, greatly reducing it's clock (if you're not comboing out). Inferno Titan just get's through them quickly. There may also be some corner cases where Titan can turn around the token count in your favor in the mirror - but I doubt that comes in consideration very much.

Having an Inferno Titan get metamorphed also feels a lot less "well, there goes the neighborhood."

It's not a great feeling but compared to Emrakul of Griselbrand...

Question: Where is Oath right now?

Answer: Overperforming at Eternal Weekend, as always.


@the-duressed Yeah. Honestly that is a little surprising to me too. I play a lot of Oath, and the most common set up I run is Griselbrand, Salvagers, Emrakul. but at this point I might want to give a much harder look at Inferno. (I don't really like Sun Titan that much because there is so much graveyard hate floating around because of Dredge, which I think explains it's limited popularity and success in tourney play.)

Just looking at other decks, most of them just have very small winning chances against resolved Titan. It just melts tokens and robots, and great point about it ripping up planeswalkers @fsecco. So it doesn't kill as quickly as other creatures might, but it reduces the opponent's chances to win to near zero as soon as it hits the board, if that opponent isn't playing some kind of combo (Tendrils, Vault//Key, or maybe Dredge...) That segment of the meta is pretty narrow. And even then, you probably have reasonable chances to win by playing the control role.

@winterstar True story. I've actually had both Griselbrand and Emrakul get Metamorphed in tournament play believe it or not. I was able to win the Emrakul game by Stripmineing a land to put my opponent to exactly six permanents and then enjoying the first attack phase with a non-summoning sick Emrakul.

The Griselgame I lost terribly, since the opponent just drew a crap-ton of cards and put so many lock pieces on the table that I was done playing things ever. It was a boarded game, so a pair of cages came down as well and I was stuck. The Grisels traded and that was that. I think I scooped to Factory beats.

Never had a Titan get Morphed... that does make me think of one more good thing about Titan though... You could just turn your Orchard sideways again and Oath into a second copy of Titan... pretty unlikely the opponent is sitting on a second Metamorph... good winning chances. And if you ever get to swing with both Titans at once you melt their Titan entirely.

last edited by Topical_Island
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