@aelien, yep depending on the matchup, I often leave some numbers of Oath into the deck (roughly speaking 2 against Control or Mirror, 4 MUD/Eldrazi/Dredge). I adjust the number of Orchard as well, cutting on lands VS Control and 99% of the time swapping 1 for Mountain.
If I suspect that Cage is their main answer, I Oath regardless to fetch/draw and play my Mentor or Pyromancer. If Im unlucky and draw Emy, I just Dack/Jace him away.
Priest decks are a little more annoying to play around but I generally max out on Abrade against them or I dig hard to naturally draw and play Pyro & Mentor.
Can you guys help me understand the appeal of Inferno Titan in this deck? I'd seen it popping up in various online events, and now it's clearly one of the center stage Oath packages due to the Eternal Weekend performance.
What's the appeal? It feels like it has less impact than Griselbrand or Sun Titan (assuming sunny doesn't completely brick), while sharing the same other features - primarily our ability to hardcast it. I have a hard time visualizing myself slamming down an Inferno Titan and being like "Aha! You're soooo in trouble now!" Seems pretty boss against fish strategies and maybe Eldrazi, but I don't know about blue match-ups or shops.
I'll freely admit that I haven't tested it out due to my own lack of availability, but in my brain I'm just having a hard time making sense of it.
@the-duressed Not an expert here, but I think largely it's that Titan is castable late game, as well as being good enough in the current meta to dominate the board and win.
Traditionally the tension here is that you would really like to be able to just hardcast your giants if the game goes long, but that probably means playing things that don't quite slam the door shut quite as hard as huge fatties like Griselbrand and Emrakul (though even Emrakul is considered slow by some). So an ideal creature is one where it's castable in a pinch, but where you win a huge % of games when you Oath into it early. Seemingly, and this is where I'm not an expert, Inferno Titan is such a creature in this meta, which makes sense given that there are so many tokens and robots floating around.
@the-duressed I think it's also in a good place now because it deals with PWs too, so for the most part it avoids being bounced by Jace. The fact that Shops is basically a creature deck now also helps.
Sun Titan can brick pretty hard and be just a card that returns a few lands to play. The main problem with the Grisel/Emrakul package is being more vulnerable to Cage and worst in the mirror, since you depend more on Oath to win and can't hardcast your creatures.
@topical_island I see what you're saying, and I really like Sun Titan for a lot of the reasons you mention. But what surprises me is that a turn 1-2 Oath into Inferno is enough to seal up the game most of the time. It must be the fact that it kills in two attacks if there's nothing in the way, but does substantial crowd control if there are opposing critters on the board.
@fsecco That did help. Knowing that the Jace needs to be held in their hand in order for it to be an answer to Inferno Titan is a good piece of information.
You're both right about why Griselbrand and Emrakul probably shouldn't be the only plan, and I agree with you. Maybe I'm just spoiled by how completely these guys can warp the game with one activation or one attack (when things are going well), but Inferno is going to take some getting used to for me. The one other thing I'll say about him is that you don't have to play Tundras, which is nice.
@the-duressed Another thing I forgot: Inferno Titan gets rid of Spirit tokens. Sun Titan gets chump blocked by any tokens you produced, greatly reducing it's clock (if you're not comboing out). Inferno Titan just get's through them quickly. There may also be some corner cases where Titan can turn around the token count in your favor in the mirror - but I doubt that comes in consideration very much.
@the-duressed Yeah. Honestly that is a little surprising to me too. I play a lot of Oath, and the most common set up I run is Griselbrand, Salvagers, Emrakul. but at this point I might want to give a much harder look at Inferno. (I don't really like Sun Titan that much because there is so much graveyard hate floating around because of Dredge, which I think explains it's limited popularity and success in tourney play.)
Just looking at other decks, most of them just have very small winning chances against resolved Titan. It just melts tokens and robots, and great point about it ripping up planeswalkers @fsecco. So it doesn't kill as quickly as other creatures might, but it reduces the opponent's chances to win to near zero as soon as it hits the board, if that opponent isn't playing some kind of combo (Tendrils, Vault//Key, or maybe Dredge...) That segment of the meta is pretty narrow. And even then, you probably have reasonable chances to win by playing the control role.
@winterstar True story. I've actually had both Griselbrand and Emrakul get Metamorphed in tournament play believe it or not. I was able to win the Emrakul game by Stripmineing a land to put my opponent to exactly six permanents and then enjoying the first attack phase with a non-summoning sick Emrakul.
The Griselgame I lost terribly, since the opponent just drew a crap-ton of cards and put so many lock pieces on the table that I was done playing things ever. It was a boarded game, so a pair of cages came down as well and I was stuck. The Grisels traded and that was that. I think I scooped to Factory beats.
Never had a Titan get Morphed... that does make me think of one more good thing about Titan though... You could just turn your Orchard sideways again and Oath into a second copy of Titan... pretty unlikely the opponent is sitting on a second Metamorph... good winning chances. And if you ever get to swing with both Titans at once you melt their Titan entirely.
@fsecco just had this exact interaction in a game last night. Opponent morphed my titan, and I just oathed into another titan and killed it with the attack of the first one.
I played a few games last night with this iteration of oath, and it is really good. I especially liked the sideboard stormbreath dragon and thrun. Completely wrecked a land still opponent with them while they were holding multiple swords.
@fsecco Thrun seems medium unless you are in a field were exactly Landstill is huge for some reason. It would be sweet to punish a Landstill deck for playing Supreme Verdict over Wrath of God though. The uncounterablility seems great against blue control type things in general, but I doubt it's got enough beef to dominate the board or put on enough clock against anything that isn't Landstill... and even then, it just loses to Consecrated Sphinx or any number of combinations of Factories and Snapcasters...
I wonder, if we are really running Thrun, why are we not just running Tinker and Inkwell, with potentially Vault/Key as an alternate win? Maybe that's too many cards?