Dredge going into Summer 2017



  • How should I board against Workshop decks?
    I'm very new to Vintage and I picked up dredge on MTGO and still learning all the different match ups. Workshop seems to be the biggest problem for me. Still playing the Vintage daily swisses and I feel the other match ups I'm getting better to play against. Always the same against Workshop tho. They play a creature and a Sphere. This is the build I'm running atm. Maybe I should make a new thread about this instead.

    Imgur pic of the deck

    Thanks in advance. :-)



  • @Loff Always great to see someone new getting into dredge! I know the hateful match-up that it can be against shops especially on the draw. So a few things I would look into. The sideboard looks good but I would look into running fragmentize over wispmare. Wispmare only hitting enchantments can be a drawback not only against shops but against several other match-ups. The mental missteps are great in the deck, but they are really bad against shops, those are cards that would almost definitely come out in the second game because they are dead cards.
    I would also look into running a barbarian ring instead of the second cabal pit, as well as a riftstone portal. Barbarian Ring gives you another red mana for the Ingot Chewer if you are light on rainbow lands, and it acts as a shock in the rare scenario that might be needed. Riftstone portal is an amazing tool into game 2-3 because it makes all of your lands a forest/plains allowing you to cast things like fragmentize, nature's claim etc. a lot easier than it would normally be. The easier it is for you to cast those spells early in the game and knock out those spheres the better chance you have.
    The high side of playing against shops is you aren't going to run into some maindeck hate like containment priest and rest in peace which can often be coffin nails. Allowing yourself to have a more versatile land base and play those destruction spells will give you an edge.
    Also, some of the cards in game two will continue to get around those sphere effects like boodghast, narco, etc because they are put into play abilities.
    What are you siding in and out against shops? Are you swinging all of your destruction spells in, and what do you remove?
    Hope this helped somehow!



  • @POXEVERYTURN Usually I try to get in all the Ingot Chewers and Nature's Claim. Vengeful Pharao I like to take in to as it serves as a removal aswell that don't use mana.
    Fragmentize is a interesting idea. I feel I get more knowledge the more I play what to board out and in. Sometimes I keep the Leyline of the Void into main when against Shops, to save my Bridges. Against Shops I usually board out Missteps and Leyline. Also how agressively should I use the Serum Powders. It's hard when I see like two bridges and sideboard cards in the hand with Serum Powder but no Bazaar. Love the deck so far. I considering buying 3 more Bazaars and play it in paper aswell.



  • @Loff I love playing it in paper. I don't play online but I feel like it can be a little strange playing it on MTGO from what I hear.

    So boarding that in sounds goods. It's all about finding a balance because you have to have enough kill to keep them down but your bridges are very susceptible to getting blown up especially with stuff like walking ballista running around. The good news is that as long as you're playing smart you can win with your bridges getting blown up. Winning through a priest, a cage, and a Rest In Peace can be a lot harder. Keep tinkering with it. I like fragmentize a lot against shops, and that riftstone portal can help your mana a lot.

    The vengeful pharaoh is interesting but it might be a little situational or slow at times. It never hurts to innovate though. Don't be scared to try new things with the list, I've taken my list in whacky directions and sometimes it pays off.

    To your second question. In my opinion it depends on the serum powder hand you're looking at. The deck tends to live and die by that turn one Bazaar which we have about a 1/17 chance of getting I believe (I think it may be higher in MTGO). Like you've encountered simply not having a bazaar isn't an automatic serum throwaway, I am never afraid to use a mulligan if I feel that using a powder will be too detrimental. Such is the case with throwing away 2 bridges or three bloodghast, etc.
    I think it is a game time decision that you need to assess. Don't be afraid to throw away a bridge or a troll but be careful about throwing away 3-4 of them for sure.
    A good example of this can be seen in the VSL if you watch it. Watch Randy Buehler play dredge in season 4-5 and Rodrigo Togores play it in season 6. They have these exact situations and sometimes they choose to mulligan over using he powder based on the cards they're looking at.



  • @Loff said in Dredge going into Summer 2017:

    @POXEVERYTURN Usually I try to get in all the Ingot Chewers and Nature's Claim. Vengeful Pharao I like to take in to as it serves as a removal aswell that don't use mana.
    Fragmentize is a interesting idea. I feel I get more knowledge the more I play what to board out and in. Sometimes I keep the Leyline of the Void into main when against Shops, to save my Bridges. Against Shops I usually board out Missteps and Leyline. Also how agressively should I use the Serum Powders. It's hard when I see like two bridges and sideboard cards in the hand with Serum Powder but no Bazaar. Love the deck so far. I considering buying 3 more Bazaars and play it in paper aswell.

    Vengeful Pharaoh is a strategic trump in the Workshop matchup. Their basic strategy is "Create 1-3 threats and restrict the opponent's ability to remove threats / win the game long enough for the threats to deal 20 damage". Vengeful Pharaoh is extremely effective at removing the threats despite the Workshop-created restrictions. If you have Pharaoh in your 75, this is the most important matchup for the card.



  • @POXEVERYTURN What should I cut to get place for Fragmentize and Riftstone Portal then? -3 Wispmare but then what?



  • @walking.dude said in Dredge going into Summer 2017:

    loadstone bauble

    what are you trying to do with loadstone bauble? i would think if it's just cause of the cheap cantrip that you would want to swap the urza's bauble and loadstone bauble counts...



  • @Loff I would cut the wispmares for fragmentize. Cut a cabal pit for a riftstone portal, cut both if you want to also run a barbarian ring. You could also cut one natures claim or ingot chewer a run one of chain of vapor. It's instant bounce in case a non-enchantment/artifact has you pinned that the other removal can't deal with. Not especially pertinent against shops but good against other matchups. That's what I would cut. Cabal pit seems like the weakest part of your side.

    What @ajfirecracker stated about the pharaoh is a very good point. Especially if you're worried about shops he is a very good option despite what I said about tempo. Thank you for that point AJ.



  • @themonadnomad

    It was originally to support siding into a bomberman kill to dodge some hate, most notably priest and cage.

    After testing, that SB plan turned out to be clunky and not very effective since it still gets caught by void, crypt and many other kinds of hate. As of now, I am using the depths SB plan that pitch dredge uses but with the bauble and street wraiths in the main instead of counters to speed up the goldfish and make finding depths a bit more reliable post board.

    I'm not sure this is better than either of the "mainstream" dredge builds, but I'm not yet convinced it's definitely worse either.



  • Hi guys. I've been itching to give dredge a try as a fun sideproject, but I would hence not like to spend many tix on it. The archetype is not expensive per se but if one wanted to cut costs without offering too much in performance, where would the best place for such cuts be? Since I have all the blue cards already, pitch-dredge without the dark depths-tranformational sb could be one way to do it (don't have depths and they're expensive right now). But then one would need another sideboard strategy. Other than that I've identified mainly the lands (undiscovered paradise, petrified field seem the most "expensive") and dread return targets as a possible way to cut down costs. Bloodghasts are among the more costly cards too but I have a feeling they're important. But since I have never played dredge myself, I am vary of just going at this without consulting those with great knowledge and experience with the archetype. So how would you guys build either a budget friendly pitch-dredge or a budget friendly traditional-dredge deck? Many thanks in advance for any advice you can give me.



  • https://mtgdecks.net/Vintage/dredge-decklist-by-kingneckbeard-661604

    This is something I was playing around with to punish the fact that most hate at that time did not actuall shut off Bridge from Below. No clue if it's good now, but it's something you could try



  • @ajfirecracker said in Dredge going into Summer 2017:

    https://mtgdecks.net/Vintage/dredge-decklist-by-kingneckbeard-661604

    Someone pointed out Pharaoh against Shops, but don't Shops run Relic/Tormod's in addition to Cage?

    Just curious. I have traditionally played Oath, but I am now the proud owner for 4 Bazaar of Baghdad, so...



  • @jhport12 said in Dredge going into Summer 2017:

    @ajfirecracker said in Dredge going into Summer 2017:

    https://mtgdecks.net/Vintage/dredge-decklist-by-kingneckbeard-661604

    Someone pointed out Pharaoh against Shops, but don't Shops run Relic/Tormod's in addition to Cage?

    Just curious. I have traditionally played Oath, but I am now the proud owner for 4 Bazaar of Baghdad, so...

    I'm pretty sure that someone was me.

    Yes, Shops do sometimes run Relic. Crypt is pretty rare. If you're making the Shops player pop their graveyard removal much earlier / vs a smaller yard, that's a good thing.



  • @ajfirecracker @jhport12 i would definitely agree with this. The only time I see people running that is if they're expecting a lot of dredge. Shops has too many other decks to worry about siding in against to take up that many spots in board. I've seen relic a lot less frequently lately as well, not sure if this has been the case for others.
    It would still get the pharaoh though in the right scenario.



  • @kistrand

    If you are just looking for a taste of Dredge and already have blue cards, you dont actually need too much. You can play a more standard fetch mana base with Dryad Arbor like the old extended decks used to run (assuming you have duals and fetches).

    There arent really replacements for the premium GY stuff. Bloodghast is pretty critical to most lists. Dragonlord Kolaghan / Flame-kin are cheap return targets. Sun Titan is the best non-kill target (other than maybe Grisel) and is reasonable to buy.



  • @POXEVERYTURN

    I dont understand why he would cut Pit. That would mean he has 0 answers for Containment Priest.

    In general, Ive prefered more flexible answers in the current meta. Abrupt Decay and Serenity are still allstars if you are playing a sufficient amount of mana. Pit doubles as a mana source and is a good complement to them.

    The 1 mana kills Claim/Fragmentize are solid, but misstep is still around and the creatures can trigger Bridges in other builds.



  • @vaughnbros in that case help him with his sideboard. Obviously you think I didn't provide good information so help him as you see fit and give him advice.
    I assessed what he had and figured that made the most sense with what he was trying to do, and that was make the best board against shops. That's why I said cut one for the portal and 2 only if he wanted to put in a barbarian ring which would also deal with containment priest.
    Look at his sideboard and provide him assistance, that's all I was trying to do.



  • I cutted 3 Wispmares for 1 Riftstone and 2 Fragmentize. I keep the Cabal Pit exacly for Containment Priest. I feel the Riftstone make it easier to cast the board cards.



  • @Loff ok cool. The rift stone portal helps a lot. It makes your mana a lot more versatile in game 2-3. Hopefully the list will do much better against shops now!



  • @POXEVERYTURN Cabal Pit also helps for hard casting Cabal Therapys so you can get them in the yard. :-)


Log in to reply
 

Looks like your connection to The Mana Drain was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.