Dredge going into Summer 2017



  • @POXEVERYTURN What should I cut to get place for Fragmentize and Riftstone Portal then? -3 Wispmare but then what?



  • @walking.dude said in Dredge going into Summer 2017:

    loadstone bauble

    what are you trying to do with loadstone bauble? i would think if it's just cause of the cheap cantrip that you would want to swap the urza's bauble and loadstone bauble counts...



  • @Loff I would cut the wispmares for fragmentize. Cut a cabal pit for a riftstone portal, cut both if you want to also run a barbarian ring. You could also cut one natures claim or ingot chewer a run one of chain of vapor. It's instant bounce in case a non-enchantment/artifact has you pinned that the other removal can't deal with. Not especially pertinent against shops but good against other matchups. That's what I would cut. Cabal pit seems like the weakest part of your side.

    What @ajfirecracker stated about the pharaoh is a very good point. Especially if you're worried about shops he is a very good option despite what I said about tempo. Thank you for that point AJ.



  • @themonadnomad

    It was originally to support siding into a bomberman kill to dodge some hate, most notably priest and cage.

    After testing, that SB plan turned out to be clunky and not very effective since it still gets caught by void, crypt and many other kinds of hate. As of now, I am using the depths SB plan that pitch dredge uses but with the bauble and street wraiths in the main instead of counters to speed up the goldfish and make finding depths a bit more reliable post board.

    I'm not sure this is better than either of the "mainstream" dredge builds, but I'm not yet convinced it's definitely worse either.



  • Hi guys. I've been itching to give dredge a try as a fun sideproject, but I would hence not like to spend many tix on it. The archetype is not expensive per se but if one wanted to cut costs without offering too much in performance, where would the best place for such cuts be? Since I have all the blue cards already, pitch-dredge without the dark depths-tranformational sb could be one way to do it (don't have depths and they're expensive right now). But then one would need another sideboard strategy. Other than that I've identified mainly the lands (undiscovered paradise, petrified field seem the most "expensive") and dread return targets as a possible way to cut down costs. Bloodghasts are among the more costly cards too but I have a feeling they're important. But since I have never played dredge myself, I am vary of just going at this without consulting those with great knowledge and experience with the archetype. So how would you guys build either a budget friendly pitch-dredge or a budget friendly traditional-dredge deck? Many thanks in advance for any advice you can give me.



  • https://mtgdecks.net/Vintage/dredge-decklist-by-kingneckbeard-661604

    This is something I was playing around with to punish the fact that most hate at that time did not actuall shut off Bridge from Below. No clue if it's good now, but it's something you could try



  • @ajfirecracker said in Dredge going into Summer 2017:

    https://mtgdecks.net/Vintage/dredge-decklist-by-kingneckbeard-661604

    Someone pointed out Pharaoh against Shops, but don't Shops run Relic/Tormod's in addition to Cage?

    Just curious. I have traditionally played Oath, but I am now the proud owner for 4 Bazaar of Baghdad, so...



  • @jhport12 said in Dredge going into Summer 2017:

    @ajfirecracker said in Dredge going into Summer 2017:

    https://mtgdecks.net/Vintage/dredge-decklist-by-kingneckbeard-661604

    Someone pointed out Pharaoh against Shops, but don't Shops run Relic/Tormod's in addition to Cage?

    Just curious. I have traditionally played Oath, but I am now the proud owner for 4 Bazaar of Baghdad, so...

    I'm pretty sure that someone was me.

    Yes, Shops do sometimes run Relic. Crypt is pretty rare. If you're making the Shops player pop their graveyard removal much earlier / vs a smaller yard, that's a good thing.



  • @ajfirecracker @jhport12 i would definitely agree with this. The only time I see people running that is if they're expecting a lot of dredge. Shops has too many other decks to worry about siding in against to take up that many spots in board. I've seen relic a lot less frequently lately as well, not sure if this has been the case for others.
    It would still get the pharaoh though in the right scenario.



  • @kistrand

    If you are just looking for a taste of Dredge and already have blue cards, you dont actually need too much. You can play a more standard fetch mana base with Dryad Arbor like the old extended decks used to run (assuming you have duals and fetches).

    There arent really replacements for the premium GY stuff. Bloodghast is pretty critical to most lists. Dragonlord Kolaghan / Flame-kin are cheap return targets. Sun Titan is the best non-kill target (other than maybe Grisel) and is reasonable to buy.



  • @POXEVERYTURN

    I dont understand why he would cut Pit. That would mean he has 0 answers for Containment Priest.

    In general, Ive prefered more flexible answers in the current meta. Abrupt Decay and Serenity are still allstars if you are playing a sufficient amount of mana. Pit doubles as a mana source and is a good complement to them.

    The 1 mana kills Claim/Fragmentize are solid, but misstep is still around and the creatures can trigger Bridges in other builds.



  • @vaughnbros in that case help him with his sideboard. Obviously you think I didn't provide good information so help him as you see fit and give him advice.
    I assessed what he had and figured that made the most sense with what he was trying to do, and that was make the best board against shops. That's why I said cut one for the portal and 2 only if he wanted to put in a barbarian ring which would also deal with containment priest.
    Look at his sideboard and provide him assistance, that's all I was trying to do.



  • I cutted 3 Wispmares for 1 Riftstone and 2 Fragmentize. I keep the Cabal Pit exacly for Containment Priest. I feel the Riftstone make it easier to cast the board cards.



  • @Loff ok cool. The rift stone portal helps a lot. It makes your mana a lot more versatile in game 2-3. Hopefully the list will do much better against shops now!



  • @POXEVERYTURN Cabal Pit also helps for hard casting Cabal Therapys so you can get them in the yard. :-)



  • @Loff @vaughnbros That's true as well. I overlooked hardcasting those. I've changed my list to run an urborg to do that and neglected these points. That and the killing of containment priest was definitely an oversight on me.



  • Hello all, I wanted to give an update on some interesting cards and Interactions for dredge after a recent tournament. I played an interesting list at the Deal me in games bi-monthly tournament yesterday, overall it was not a great day for me but it did allow me to report on some things I've wanted to try in dredge.

    HOLLOW ONE

    I was running 4 Hollow ones main deck in the list. It definitely creates some interesting interactions and allowed the deck to come from a different axis than normal. Had one hit the board in almost every match including a dredge mirror and two in one match. It was especially good in games 2-3 Becuase it got around all their hate and opponents often had trouble getting it off the board. Simply presenting a 5 turn clock early game was great pressure. This was especially relevant in the dredge mirror. Opponent had a turn 0 Leyline of the void and this presented a nice clock while I dug for removal for the Leyline especially since he didn't have a bazaar early game.

    Other than the dredge mirror I had 3 matches against shops where this was helpful early game and also comes in through a sphere which was really helpful. Opponent had a Thorn and Sphere Turn one and I dropped two of this guy for free. Presenting a three turn clock on turn one on top of my dredging was great.

    The big downfall to this guy is he is basically dead after he hits the yard. Can't pitch to Ichorid and just sort of sits there. Though I did dread return him one match with no other targets.

    I'm going to keep him in the list and try him out some more overall I was pretty happy with how this guy interacts with my list and in game play.

    **COMBUSTIBLE GEARHULK

    So this guy was definitely a wild card in the deck. I dropped my dragon lord and Griselbrand to run two of these. When they hit they were awesome. They presented a really tough decision for the opponent and each time they decided to take the damage straight and every time it resulted in game over. He hit the board three times for 9 damage, 12 damage, and 15 damage reapectively (hit troll, troll, hollow one for game). I really like him as a dread target but he does not present the same guaranteed game ending ability that Griselbrand usually does. However, I really like the decision it makes the opponent make and will continue to run him in the list for some more feedback.

    The big con to this guy is that he is not playable late game if you are down to only a few cards left in your library. This situation never came up but it was always in the back of my mind that it could happen.

    Overall I really like both of these cards. Just wanted to give anyone interested some feedback. Hopefully next tournament I will have better results overall.



  • @poxeveryturn said in Dredge going into Summer 2017:

    Shops has too many other decks to worry about siding in against to take up that many spots in board.

    I disagree with this statement. Shops is pre-boarded against Missteps and aggregate combo. The typical shop setup needs enough board cards to side spheres out in the mirror on the draw. Since Cage is double duty vs. Oath I normally have at least 2-3 other dedicated grave hate like Crypt or Relic. Relic can come in to replace spheres as well and win the Crucible war in shop mirrors.



  • Pretty interesting dredge list in a recent results thread

    http://www.themanadrain.com/topic/1425/deal-me-in-games-8-12-17-vintage-series-4-results
    Zach Mullin on Dredgebolded text
    4 golgari gravetroll
    4 bloodghast
    2 golgari thug
    4 narcomoeba
    4 stinkweed imp
    4 fatestitcher
    1 flame-kin zealot
    3 sun titan
    1 black lotus
    1 lion's eye diamond
    1 lotus petal
    1 mox sapphire
    4 cabal therapy
    4 bridge from below
    4 serum powder
    4 dread return
    4 bazaar of Baghdad
    1 dakmor salvage
    4 mana confluence
    1 petrified field
    4 undiscovered paradise

    sb: 4 rending valley, 4 ingot chewer, 2 abrupt decay, 2 nature's claim, 3 petrified field

    List is very heavy on dread return with the full 4 copies and 4 reanimation targets and a few secondary targets (ie sun titan brings back lotus). The fatestitchers can do some work on their own, but seem like a kill when titan brings back lotus to activate multiples and get a lot of activations.

    I wonder how this fares in terms of picking up speed and consistency in game one. I also wonder how this larger than average reanimation package works with the sideboard .

    All in all looks interesting to me, but without being able to test it myself yet I don't really understand it.



  • @walking-dude I was at this tournament and the deck was really impressive. I was running a different dredge list. This one was definitely very fast. The fatestichers definitely allow for an added axis. It was also pretty stellar in a dredge mirror as the deck was faster than the other list which gave it a heads up. The pilot was also very good at running the deck and I believe was top seed going into top 8, though I could be won about that statement. I really liked watching the list in action.


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