Bomberman 2017



  • Just a thought,
    Walking ballista should probably be a four of in any Bombaerman list and Hope of Ghirapur shouldn't be difficult to include. My 2Cents, at least. :)



  • @Pokey said in Bomberman 2017:

    PO may or may not be better, but Jace and I are bros.

    It's true....Justin without Jace is like Joe Biden without Barack Obama (are we still doing that? If not, can we?)



  • Niche scenerio, but should REB and Pyroblast switch MB and SB, in that Pyro can easily be fuel for DigCruise? Is fragmentize better than wear//tear in this list? Just curious. I like it alot tho. 3 dack and 3 jace seems beautiful, Im guessing the 3rd jace over brainstorm? Or is that just to keep Misstep targets low?



  • @Ten-Ten Walking Ballista is good, but not THAT good. We are already weak enough to Null Rod, and it requires too much mana to be useful. Also, I've never once thought to myself, "This deck really wants a Xantid Swarm."

    @Serracollector While Pyro is strictly better than REB, I prefer to play my Summer Magic REB (gotta be a baller). It hasn't cost me any games yet, so we'll keep doing that. I don't like Wear//Tear because I don't want to play red sideboard cards. If I did, I would be playing By Force. That being said, Fragmentize is getting cut anyway for 3rd EE or Moat. I have in fact eschewed Brainstorm for another Planeswalker.



  • Those sir are all legit reasons. Ty. Love it.



  • @Pokey Hope of Ghirapur is more of a time walk with legs that kills, in most cases anyway. GG with Salvagers out, no need for infinite mana. It's a highly underrated card indeed. Requires minimal resources/risk for a high reward. I actually didnt evaluate it as a Xantid Swarm, Just saying.



  • Pretty sure there was a bet concerning Auriok Salvagers and Hope of Whatever with absolutely no takers. The card is not underrated, it's not a Time Walk, it's not GG with Salvagers (Swords either card and it breaks the loop), it's just bad in this context....



  • @Ten-Ten white eldrazi, shops, bug control - all dont care about non-creature spells as much. That's not an insignificant amount of the meta right there. Oath is another one that iwll probably be online long before you get this combo out and once its online many oath variants dont need to cast spells to win. Then all the X/w decks packing StP like Chubby mentioned. Your opponent is still collecting cards in their hand on their turn.

    Salvagers has so many ways to just lock out and win instantly that a soft lock is worse than a sub-par choice.



  • I finished 9th (out of 42) this Saturday at our annual Sanctioned Eternal Masters Week-End in Australia with a PO Bomberman list:

    Critters (7)
    2 Auriok Salvagers
    2 Trinket Mage
    3 Monastery Mentor

    Disrupt (16)
    4 Force of Will
    3 Mana Drain
    3 Mental Misstep
    2 Mindbreak Trap
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Pyrite Spellbomb
    1 Engineered Explosives

    Draws (13)
    3 Thirst for Knowledge
    2 Paradoxical Outcome
    2 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Dig Through Time
    1 Time Walk
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Jace, the Mindsculptor
    1 Dack Fayden
    1 SkullClamp

    Mana (24)
    1 Black Lotus
    5 Moxen
    1 Mox Opal
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Sol Ring
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Tundra
    2 Island
    1 Plains
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Cavern of Souls
    1 Tolarian Academy
    1 Library of Alex
    1 Strip Mine

    Sideboard (15)
    3 Hurkyl's Recall
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Disenchant
    2 Mystic Remora
    1 Flusterstorm
    2 Containment Priest
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Pithing Needle

    Round 1 - JacoDrazi: Win 2-1. Early Mentor game 2 got me there. Game 3, STP 2 early Smashers won the game because, after that, I simply drew more than them.
    Round 2 - Grixis Control (with 3 Sudden Shock + 3 Bolt + Snappies + Bob): Win 2-0. Game 1, I Stripped Mine is Turn1 Library!. Game 2, he mulled to 4
    Round 3 - White Eldrazi: Loss 0-2. I Mindbreak Trapped the first threat T1. Then I got steamrolled. Game 2, I kept a "good hand", but Null Rod ruined it. Wasn't close.
    Round 4 - UWb Mentor: Win 2-0. This one was on stream here so I won't spoil it. It was rather entertaining from my point of view!
    Round 5 - Ballista MUD (with Tangle Wire): Loss 0-2. Game 2, I kept ok hand with Sideboard cards. I was always 1 Mana short. My opponent Andrew Canessa finished 1st in the Swiss but lost in the Top8 Gd Finale against an Unpowered UR Deck!
    Round 6 - PO combo with 1 Mentor: Win 2-0. Game 2, I had Remora up to 8 cumulative upkeeps and an early Trinket Mage beating my opponent down to 4 life. So he eventually tried to go off, and my very last draw of the Remora was a FOW for his Yawg's Will (which I initially mindbreaked trapped but got flustered...). It would have played very differently if he had dropped a Defense Grid at some stage in that game. It was a very interesting match.

    So obviously, I was very pleased with the deck VS the blue match-ups. But clearly, I must do some more work against the Aggro + Sphere decks:

    • Maybe remove Opal and put 16th Land
    • Maybe cut 1 Salvager for 4th Mentor (but I really don't want to be known as one of those guys never running less than 4 Mentors)
    • Maybe find room for 3rd Sword MD. That would leave some space for a least 1 Fragmentize in SB
    • Maybe remove Skullclamp which is mostly for the Blue match-ups and probably too cute against aggro (Note: I wanted to stay at 14 Artifacts minimum MD to fuel Thirst, PO, Tolarian).
    • Maybe play a Meekstone as a Trinket Mage's silver bullet. It's an artifact so possibly a half-decent permanent answer against some Spheres & Wires and it fuels Thirst, PO, Tolarian.
    • Maybe replace Pyrite Spellbomb with Aether Spellbomb as it can deal with Smashers, Oath dudes & TinkerBot that seems to regain popularity recently and accessorily bounce my own dudes to rescue them or simply for some extra value (Trinket Mage!). Pyrite provides another answer in case of Moat & Planewalkers but thinking about it further, I will definitely swap for Aether Spellbomb next time. Smasher is the worst.

    All in all, the deck was thrown together the night before so doing some real testing & tuning against the Aggro + Sphere match-ups is probably half the secret. It was a tonne of fun regardless and 2 x PO + 2 x Remora (in side) played very well. I think it is the correct recipe and "2 PO only" might become more of a thing in Control decks.



  • @tribet that about 65 cards within what I thought up when making my original post. Did you consider Ballista over spellbomb? How often did you win through Mentor beats instead of Salvagers combo? Was Salvagers worth it over just playing another Mentor and tuning it towards pushing Mentor?



  • @tribet said in Bomberman 2017:

    So obviously, I was very pleased with the deck VS the blue match-ups. But clearly, I must do some more work against the Aggro + Sphere decks:

    • Maybe remove Opal and put 16th Land
    • Maybe cut 1 Salvager for 4th Mentor (but I really don't want to be known as one of those guys never running less than 4 Mentors)
    • Maybe find room for 3rd Sword MD. That would leave some space for a least 1 Fragmentize in SB
    • Maybe remove Skullclamp which is mostly for the Blue match-ups and probably too cute against aggro (Note: I wanted to stay at 14 Artifacts minimum MD to fuel Thirst, PO, Tolarian).
    • Maybe play a Meekstone as a Trinket Mage's silver bullet. It's an artifact so possibly a half-decent permanent answer against some Spheres & Wires and it fuels Thirst, PO, Tolarian.
    • Maybe replace Pyrite Spellbomb with Aether Spellbomb as it can deal with Smashers, Oath dudes & TinkerBot that seems to regain popularity recently and accessorily bounce my own dudes to rescue them or simply for some extra value (Trinket Mage!). Pyrite provides another answer in case of Moat & Planewalkers but thinking about it further, I will definitely swap for Aether Spellbomb next time. Smasher is the worst.

    All in all, the deck was thrown together the night before so doing some real testing & tuning against the Aggro + Sphere match-ups is probably half the secret. It was a tonne of fun regardless and 2 x PO + 2 x Remora (in side) played very well. I think it is the correct recipe and "2 PO only" might become more of a thing in Control decks.

    I've been tinkering with Paradoxical Bomberman builds since the PO was available on cockatrice. Its not a bad deck but I usually abandon it because I find I win a VERY large % of my games by just mentoring them out and the bomberman package turns into 1 or 2 dead draws. But its a fun deck and resilient against other U strategies.

    You mentioned removing skullclamp but wanting to keep the artifact count up. I would go -1 skullclamp +1 pithing needle. G1 if you get needle you are simply name wasteland, ravager or ballista depending on the deck/situation you are up against. I've played skullclamp in mentor myself. Its simply too cute. It can work wonders and can sit as a dead card for long periods of time. Chalice@1, misstep, null rod/stony silence - there are just so many answers to this particular card that I've found the cons outweigh the pros.

    May also want to consider -1mentor +1 trinket mage if you want to focus on bomberman. 1 or 2 mentors should win the game (1 usually does if you have protection against ballista (ohhhh, pithing needle!!) or stp). Another trinket mage just makes getting the pieces for bomberman more consistent.

    Also -3 thirst, +2 paradoxical, +1 dack. Both will draw you so many more cards than thirst.

    I imagine your counter package is more meta-dependent but I'm surprised by the complete lack of flusterstorms MD. Also since you have Dack you are running red. 1 or 2 By Force or even ancient grudge helps a lot against shops (and can even disrupt some of eldrazi's disruption like revoker and null rod).

    Congratulations on the finish. Sounds like it was a fun day for you.



  • @enderfall,
    hehe, great minds think alike they say! I brewed the deck on Friday 9th 11pm Australia time ready for my 7am flight. It seems that you created this thread on 10th June 4:09am! Looking back through my Internet history, it seems that I was mostly looking at these 2 lists for some inspiration:

    With this in mind, the week leading to our Eternal WE, I was brewing many janky brews running things like: 4 PO + 4 Trinket Mage + 4 Drain + 4 Devastation Tides... VClique, Snappies, Remoras, Ballistas, Hangarback...

    Ballista was definitely tested in most of my brews. I only played a few tiny sample size games against my mate and it was not working greatly for me. Too often Ballista felt no good on its own. Sure, Mana Drain + Ballista play felt great but most of the time, the card was stuck in my hand and I was never fetching it with Trinket Mage: Lotus, Sensei or Sapphire were always the first targets.

    Don't get me wrong, I feel like Ballista serve the same role than Pyrite Spellbomb but with some extra flexibility as Mana Drain sink which seems fantastic. I still favoured Spellbomb instead as I wanted to be able to get rid of an early Mentor. Remember, on the night, I was only able to find space for 2 Swords so I think this really pushed me toward Spellbomb instead of Ballista.

    Sure Spellbomb can also draw your whole deck as well and Ballista doesn't but you can do the same with Sensei + EE anyways (or just PO). So I don't think this was really a consideration. Killing an early Mentor was the main reason.

    Clearly, I think that the 2nd Auriok can easily be the 4th Mentor. I'm struggling against aggro and let's be honest, Salvager is often one of the first card (or two) to get sided out. I'm counting on my opponent to side in Stony Silence & Rod effects so I'm generally thinning down on the combo pieces. Last, against the PO decks or Aggro/Sphere, Bomberman combo feels way too slow.

    I can remember 2 games where I won out of nowhere with Bomberman combo. One was on stream here: my opp had an early Mentor + Tokens on the board. The 2nd time was game1 against PO deck. I was dead on board and I Dug Through Time into my combo! So the combo is there, I feel it is as important as Esper Mentor running Tendrils of Agony + Yawg's Will. It gives you some easy games, you need some amount of plan B. I believe some call it "Oops I win", it is very important in Vintage.

    @Khahan

    I think you are bang on about Pithing Needle. I simply love the card myself and always run one in Vintage. (I'm infamous for simply naming random fetch T1!).

    Skullclamp shoud go, we all agree. I just don't get to play often Vintage so when I do, I make sure I play cool cards & random techs.

    About the 3 Trinket Mages, again I brewed some stuff with 4, then 3, then 2. 2 ran very ok for me on the day. I think it was competing too much with the Mentors curve and I just thought 3 Mentors would be more relevant more often.

    I'm really not sure 4 POs is correct in that deck and meta. Thirst was so smooth that I rediscovered a new love playing it again last week-end. PO was great each time I drew it (again see stream here), so I could probably see myself pushing up to 3Thirst + 3POs but then I have to cut something and note that I'm already not running Brainstorm, Ponder or Cruise... Saying that, I think 2nd Dack would be my first preference over the 3rd PO.

    Flusterstorm, I had so many good experiences across a wide variety of match-ups with Trap that I really wanted to swing 2 in that deck. I wanted to limit my dead cards against MUD & Eldrazi without compromising PO so Trap had to stay (over Flusterstorm). It could be a one-off no doubt but if I do, I think I would first put another Sword instead of a one-off Fluster. After side, thanks to the 2 Remora, I think that it was completely justified to jam in a lone Fluster in my SB.

    Regarding By Force or Grudge, I lost Game2 against Ballista MUD with an opening hand Hurkyl's that I was never able to cast. That's why at the moment, I believe that 1 more STP needs to be moved into the main and probably replaced with 1 Fragmentize (or 2) in the SB.

    The real problem in fact is Eldrazi. By Force or Grudge (or Fragmentize) are excellent (I'll just have to boost my red mana, currently only 1 Volcanic) BUT the key problem is that they don't solve Eldrazi at all. You want something that deals with both, I think that Snuff Out, Dismember, Swords are where you want to be until a Mentor can chump for the rest of the day.



  • Video of PO Bomberman here along with another 4.5hrs of real paper sanctioned MTG with commentary (6 rounds + Top8)


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