Bomberman 2017



  • @tribet said in Bomberman 2017:

    So obviously, I was very pleased with the deck VS the blue match-ups. But clearly, I must do some more work against the Aggro + Sphere decks:

    • Maybe remove Opal and put 16th Land
    • Maybe cut 1 Salvager for 4th Mentor (but I really don't want to be known as one of those guys never running less than 4 Mentors)
    • Maybe find room for 3rd Sword MD. That would leave some space for a least 1 Fragmentize in SB
    • Maybe remove Skullclamp which is mostly for the Blue match-ups and probably too cute against aggro (Note: I wanted to stay at 14 Artifacts minimum MD to fuel Thirst, PO, Tolarian).
    • Maybe play a Meekstone as a Trinket Mage's silver bullet. It's an artifact so possibly a half-decent permanent answer against some Spheres & Wires and it fuels Thirst, PO, Tolarian.
    • Maybe replace Pyrite Spellbomb with Aether Spellbomb as it can deal with Smashers, Oath dudes & TinkerBot that seems to regain popularity recently and accessorily bounce my own dudes to rescue them or simply for some extra value (Trinket Mage!). Pyrite provides another answer in case of Moat & Planewalkers but thinking about it further, I will definitely swap for Aether Spellbomb next time. Smasher is the worst.

    All in all, the deck was thrown together the night before so doing some real testing & tuning against the Aggro + Sphere match-ups is probably half the secret. It was a tonne of fun regardless and 2 x PO + 2 x Remora (in side) played very well. I think it is the correct recipe and "2 PO only" might become more of a thing in Control decks.

    I've been tinkering with Paradoxical Bomberman builds since the PO was available on cockatrice. Its not a bad deck but I usually abandon it because I find I win a VERY large % of my games by just mentoring them out and the bomberman package turns into 1 or 2 dead draws. But its a fun deck and resilient against other U strategies.

    You mentioned removing skullclamp but wanting to keep the artifact count up. I would go -1 skullclamp +1 pithing needle. G1 if you get needle you are simply name wasteland, ravager or ballista depending on the deck/situation you are up against. I've played skullclamp in mentor myself. Its simply too cute. It can work wonders and can sit as a dead card for long periods of time. Chalice@1, misstep, null rod/stony silence - there are just so many answers to this particular card that I've found the cons outweigh the pros.

    May also want to consider -1mentor +1 trinket mage if you want to focus on bomberman. 1 or 2 mentors should win the game (1 usually does if you have protection against ballista (ohhhh, pithing needle!!) or stp). Another trinket mage just makes getting the pieces for bomberman more consistent.

    Also -3 thirst, +2 paradoxical, +1 dack. Both will draw you so many more cards than thirst.

    I imagine your counter package is more meta-dependent but I'm surprised by the complete lack of flusterstorms MD. Also since you have Dack you are running red. 1 or 2 By Force or even ancient grudge helps a lot against shops (and can even disrupt some of eldrazi's disruption like revoker and null rod).

    Congratulations on the finish. Sounds like it was a fun day for you.



  • @enderfall,
    hehe, great minds think alike they say! I brewed the deck on Friday 9th 11pm Australia time ready for my 7am flight. It seems that you created this thread on 10th June 4:09am! Looking back through my Internet history, it seems that I was mostly looking at these 2 lists for some inspiration:

    With this in mind, the week leading to our Eternal WE, I was brewing many janky brews running things like: 4 PO + 4 Trinket Mage + 4 Drain + 4 Devastation Tides... VClique, Snappies, Remoras, Ballistas, Hangarback...

    Ballista was definitely tested in most of my brews. I only played a few tiny sample size games against my mate and it was not working greatly for me. Too often Ballista felt no good on its own. Sure, Mana Drain + Ballista play felt great but most of the time, the card was stuck in my hand and I was never fetching it with Trinket Mage: Lotus, Sensei or Sapphire were always the first targets.

    Don't get me wrong, I feel like Ballista serve the same role than Pyrite Spellbomb but with some extra flexibility as Mana Drain sink which seems fantastic. I still favoured Spellbomb instead as I wanted to be able to get rid of an early Mentor. Remember, on the night, I was only able to find space for 2 Swords so I think this really pushed me toward Spellbomb instead of Ballista.

    Sure Spellbomb can also draw your whole deck as well and Ballista doesn't but you can do the same with Sensei + EE anyways (or just PO). So I don't think this was really a consideration. Killing an early Mentor was the main reason.

    Clearly, I think that the 2nd Auriok can easily be the 4th Mentor. I'm struggling against aggro and let's be honest, Salvager is often one of the first card (or two) to get sided out. I'm counting on my opponent to side in Stony Silence & Rod effects so I'm generally thinning down on the combo pieces. Last, against the PO decks or Aggro/Sphere, Bomberman combo feels way too slow.

    I can remember 2 games where I won out of nowhere with Bomberman combo. One was on stream here: my opp had an early Mentor + Tokens on the board. The 2nd time was game1 against PO deck. I was dead on board and I Dug Through Time into my combo! So the combo is there, I feel it is as important as Esper Mentor running Tendrils of Agony + Yawg's Will. It gives you some easy games, you need some amount of plan B. I believe some call it "Oops I win", it is very important in Vintage.

    @Khahan

    I think you are bang on about Pithing Needle. I simply love the card myself and always run one in Vintage. (I'm infamous for simply naming random fetch T1!).

    Skullclamp shoud go, we all agree. I just don't get to play often Vintage so when I do, I make sure I play cool cards & random techs.

    About the 3 Trinket Mages, again I brewed some stuff with 4, then 3, then 2. 2 ran very ok for me on the day. I think it was competing too much with the Mentors curve and I just thought 3 Mentors would be more relevant more often.

    I'm really not sure 4 POs is correct in that deck and meta. Thirst was so smooth that I rediscovered a new love playing it again last week-end. PO was great each time I drew it (again see stream here), so I could probably see myself pushing up to 3Thirst + 3POs but then I have to cut something and note that I'm already not running Brainstorm, Ponder or Cruise... Saying that, I think 2nd Dack would be my first preference over the 3rd PO.

    Flusterstorm, I had so many good experiences across a wide variety of match-ups with Trap that I really wanted to swing 2 in that deck. I wanted to limit my dead cards against MUD & Eldrazi without compromising PO so Trap had to stay (over Flusterstorm). It could be a one-off no doubt but if I do, I think I would first put another Sword instead of a one-off Fluster. After side, thanks to the 2 Remora, I think that it was completely justified to jam in a lone Fluster in my SB.

    Regarding By Force or Grudge, I lost Game2 against Ballista MUD with an opening hand Hurkyl's that I was never able to cast. That's why at the moment, I believe that 1 more STP needs to be moved into the main and probably replaced with 1 Fragmentize (or 2) in the SB.

    The real problem in fact is Eldrazi. By Force or Grudge (or Fragmentize) are excellent (I'll just have to boost my red mana, currently only 1 Volcanic) BUT the key problem is that they don't solve Eldrazi at all. You want something that deals with both, I think that Snuff Out, Dismember, Swords are where you want to be until a Mentor can chump for the rest of the day.



  • Video of PO Bomberman here along with another 4.5hrs of real paper sanctioned MTG with commentary (6 rounds + Top8)


  • TMD Supporter

    Hi everyone,

    Did Bomberman still compete in the current Vintage scene ?
    I just (finally) finished to get into Power for this specific deck, but since I havent played vintage for years (literally), I'm really not up-to-date on what's good and what's out of favor.

    I saw here a list with Skullclamp. This is a fantastic card with which I had a lot of fun back in Mirodin era. Since I have to remplace 3 creatures because of Mentor restriction, I thought Skullclamp would be a nice addition with Young Pyromancer. I would love to add the Tinker/Colossus couple, but cant find rooms for it 😕

    For reference, here is the list I was planning to build.

    //MAINDECK
    2 Auriok Salvagers
    2 Trinket Mage
    1 Monastery Mentor
    3 Young Pyromancer
    2 Snapcaster Mage

    4 Force of Will
    4 Mental Misstep
    2 Mana Drain
    2 Mindbreak Trap
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Aether Spellbomb
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Pithing Needle

    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Dig Through Time
    1 Time Walk
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Jace, the Mindsculptor
    2 Dack Fayden
    1 Skullclamp

    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Sol Ring
    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Tundra
    2 Island
    1 Plains
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Cavern of Souls
    1 Library of Alexandria
    1 Tolarian Academy
    1 Strip Mine

    //SIDEBOARD
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Containment Priest
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Steel Sabotage
    2 Hurkyl’s Recall

    Since I'm literally on "Level zero" of Vintage, all constructive critic are most welcome 😉



  • So stretching with another delve card like treasure cruise is out? Thats just what i noticed in bomberman. But i would playtest it with dack fayden, nice with drain mana too. Id add a second mind sculptor too, instead of a young pyromancer. Jace wins more games overall, but depends on if your meta is aggro or not. Im not too sold on pyromancer tech; you lose the card Balance in it, which is a great hitter these days when there are guys like Leovold etc, and can work if you start with moxes or cheap artifact spells.

    Why mindbreak trap? Is the storm or more likely Paradox outcome matchup bad?

    Id definitely run that gitaxian probe too, to know when to land trinket mage to find pithing needle cards, recall safety or just anything.


  • TMD Supporter

    So I listen to your advises, and removed Skullclamp, Young Pyro (all) and an Auriok. This let the deck with the following creatures package and 5 slots :

    1 Auriok Salvagers
    2 Trinket Mage
    1 Monastery Mentor
    2 Snapcaster Mage

    I then added a "light" Tinker Package (Tinker and Colossus), and a Mana Crypt. I tweaked also some other cards to fit Lightning Bolt and Flusterstorm.

    4 Force of Will
    4 Mental Misstep
    2 Mana Drain
    1 Mindbreak Trap
    1 Flusterstorm
    2 Lightning Bolt
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Aether Spellbomb
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Pithing Needle

    1 Tinker
    1 Blightsteel Colossus
    1 Dig Through Time
    1 Treasure Cruise
    1 Time Walk
    1 Ancestral Recall
    2 Dack Fayden
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Mana Crypt
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Island
    1 Plains
    2 Tundra
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Cavern of Souls
    1 Library of Alexandria
    1 Tolarian Academy
    1 Strip Mine

    Will test this list on the next casual vintage 😉



  • May be a meta-dependent call but I would -2 lightning bolt +1 salvagers (getting hit by swords sucks) and +1 walking ballista. Ballista is the best win-con this deck packs. If you draw it, you can 'waste' it as a 1/1 or 2/2 and get some board control or early beats in. Then when you need it out of the graveyard, you have salvagers to bring it back.
    If you really want a lightning bolt still then -1 bolt and - 1 aetherspell bomb. Lets face it, if you have salvagers and lotus which would you rather draw - aether spelbomb or walking ballista?



  • Agree with Khahan. Ballista is huge with mana drain too. (And less likely, a tinker target.)

    But goddamn man, id recommend you to read my post carefully you really need that gitaxian probe etc.


  • TMD Supporter

    @yakuzaxrock Gitaxian Probe added.



  • It's a competent list. The premiere Bomberman pilot, Justin Kohler, never played Snapcaster Mage and after piloting Bomberman for a while, I fully appreciate why. Without the proactive cantrips that other decks use, the card is often inactive in the early/mid game.

    While Jeskai is the most common color combination for Blue Stew.dec, Bomberman historically has been UW or Esper. The Dacks, Pyroblasts, and artifact hate might be more compelling in today's meta, though Dark Confidants and Demonic Tutor are also exceptional in Bomberman lists that support a Cavern or two.

    We would definitely see a lot more of this deck if Wizards would deign to make some of the marquis maneuvers (anything repetitive, ie Bomberman, Dragon, "CopyCat," Twin) in their paper product available digitally. Too much to ask, I know.



  • Ok so what i noticed is no Brainstorm. You only have jace, which you upped 1 recently, and 2 faydens to shuffle in the colos? Hmmm. Brainstorm also works with trinket mage as a small detail shuffler.



  • I've piloted this deck to some respectable finishes as well. 17th at 2015 Vintage champs after losing both of my win and in's being the largest tournament I entered with the deck.

    I played snapcaster and brainstorm in that list and they were amazing. I'll never cut brainstorm just because of the power it has to find sideboard cards in games 2 and 3. I don't think I need to explain why snapcaster is good in a deck with ancestral, missteps, stp and possibly flusterstorm alongside dack.

    I was testing a list with P.O. recently but I don't think it's quite good enough but mentor is an excellent addition to the deck.

    http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10341&d=259211&f=VI

    If I were to run this in a tournament anytime soon it would be close to my list from 3 years ago with a sideboard overhaul.



  • From what I see, most players not familiar with Bomberman, try and add the combo to a blue control shell, or cram three decks into one. That might work here and there, but in that case, why even go Bomberman?
    Just my two cents.
    Also, more Jace, The Mindscultor/ Sensei's D. Top, over cantrips and Snapcaster in this deck is best. Jtms IS the back-up plan. Tinker->BsC is good post-board against specific MUs but I wouldn't do it main. Too much tempo loss. The games where you would win with Tinker, you could've won through Bomberman/Jace anyway.


 

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