[XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass



  • It's an obviously powerful lock piece with an absurd ceiling, a reasonable floor, a terrific rate, good synergy with existing cards, and applications in multiple orthogonal matchups.

    The silence on this is defeaning. And if I'm being honest, more than a little pathetic.



  • @ribby said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    It's an obviously powerful lock piece with an absurd ceiling, a reasonable floor, a terrific rate, good synergy with existing cards, and applications in multiple orthogonal matchups.

    The silence on this is defeaning. And if I'm being honest, more than a little pathetic.

    A 60+ post thread with no fighting isn't silence.


  • TMD Supporter

    @hierarchnoble said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    Also of note, The Rich Shay showcased the card's power last night when he locked out two of Randy's Flooded Strands on the first turn, effectively winning him the game right there.

    As a shops player, I had to laugh and then cry at this. Bring out the pitchforks!

    Thanks for sharing, I'll have to check it out.



  • In my limited testing with the card, I very much like it. I'll be running some number at champs.

    I think the double fetchland destroyer on turn 1 is rather rare. I haven't even been able to hit a fetchland with the card yet, or if I had the choice it was not the optimal line.

    The information has helped somewhat more than I expected it to, but it's again not as valuable as it is to other lists.



  • A lot of the discussion has been focused on slotting this into shops to pair with revoker. My question is for non-shops decks. Does this replace pithing needle in your sideboards?

    That 1 mana difference can mean a WHOLE lot. In games 2 and 3 getting a turn 1 needle down naming bazaar vs a turn 2 can be the difference between stopping dredge and dredge going off. A turn 2 spyglass vs shops on the draw is a lot less effective at naming wasteland and stopping waste effects than a turn 1 needle. But then again casting spyglass and knowing if you need to name ravager or ballista could be great. Not having to guess at blind naming black lotus or jace or dack could be huge. So non-shops pilots - needle or spyglass?



  • @khahan said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    A lot of the discussion has been focused on slotting this into shops to pair with revoker. My question is for non-shops decks. Does this replace pithing needle in your sideboards?

    That 1 mana difference can mean a WHOLE lot. In games 2 and 3 getting a turn 1 needle down naming bazaar vs a turn 2 can be the difference between stopping dredge and dredge going off. A turn 2 spyglass vs shops on the draw is a lot less effective at naming wasteland and stopping waste effects than a turn 1 needle. But then again casting spyglass and knowing if you need to name ravager or ballista could be great. Not having to guess at blind naming black lotus or jace or dack could be huge. So non-shops pilots - needle or spyglass?

    Dodging Mental Skillstep with Spyglass is some good.



  • @seksaybish said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    @khahan said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    A lot of the discussion has been focused on slotting this into shops to pair with revoker. My question is for non-shops decks. Does this replace pithing needle in your sideboards?

    That 1 mana difference can mean a WHOLE lot. In games 2 and 3 getting a turn 1 needle down naming bazaar vs a turn 2 can be the difference between stopping dredge and dredge going off. A turn 2 spyglass vs shops on the draw is a lot less effective at naming wasteland and stopping waste effects than a turn 1 needle. But then again casting spyglass and knowing if you need to name ravager or ballista could be great. Not having to guess at blind naming black lotus or jace or dack could be huge. So non-shops pilots - needle or spyglass?

    Dodging Mental Skillstep with Spyglass is some good.

    yes, the standard reply to a discussion involving alternatives to any 1 drop. But what deck running misstep would you bring pithing needle or spyglass in for? Non-shops decks are bringing in needles to stop wastelands to help stabilize their own mana base or to stop specific strategies like bazaar or 2-card monte. Those don't run misstep. Maybe BUG (I board 1 needle in usually for either wastes or DRS) fits this category. But generally speaking with needle I'm not in the least bit concerned about it being misstepped.



  • @khahan said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    @seksaybish said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    @khahan said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    A lot of the discussion has been focused on slotting this into shops to pair with revoker. My question is for non-shops decks. Does this replace pithing needle in your sideboards?

    That 1 mana difference can mean a WHOLE lot. In games 2 and 3 getting a turn 1 needle down naming bazaar vs a turn 2 can be the difference between stopping dredge and dredge going off. A turn 2 spyglass vs shops on the draw is a lot less effective at naming wasteland and stopping waste effects than a turn 1 needle. But then again casting spyglass and knowing if you need to name ravager or ballista could be great. Not having to guess at blind naming black lotus or jace or dack could be huge. So non-shops pilots - needle or spyglass?

    Dodging Mental Skillstep with Spyglass is some good.

    yes, the standard reply to a discussion involving alternatives to any 1 drop. But what deck running misstep would you bring pithing needle or spyglass in for? Non-shops decks are bringing in needles to stop wastelands to help stabilize their own mana base or to stop specific strategies like bazaar or 2-card monte. Those don't run misstep. Maybe BUG (I board 1 needle in usually for either wastes or DRS) fits this category. But generally speaking with needle I'm not in the least bit concerned about it being misstepped.

    You nailed it with BUG and Pitch Dredge. There's also StoneBlade, Standstill, and UR Delver w/ Dack/JVP.



  • @seksaybish said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    @khahan said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    @seksaybish said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    @khahan said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    A lot of the discussion has been focused on slotting this into shops to pair with revoker. My question is for non-shops decks. Does this replace pithing needle in your sideboards?

    That 1 mana difference can mean a WHOLE lot. In games 2 and 3 getting a turn 1 needle down naming bazaar vs a turn 2 can be the difference between stopping dredge and dredge going off. A turn 2 spyglass vs shops on the draw is a lot less effective at naming wasteland and stopping waste effects than a turn 1 needle. But then again casting spyglass and knowing if you need to name ravager or ballista could be great. Not having to guess at blind naming black lotus or jace or dack could be huge. So non-shops pilots - needle or spyglass?

    Dodging Mental Skillstep with Spyglass is some good.

    yes, the standard reply to a discussion involving alternatives to any 1 drop. But what deck running misstep would you bring pithing needle or spyglass in for? Non-shops decks are bringing in needles to stop wastelands to help stabilize their own mana base or to stop specific strategies like bazaar or 2-card monte. Those don't run misstep. Maybe BUG (I board 1 needle in usually for either wastes or DRS) fits this category. But generally speaking with needle I'm not in the least bit concerned about it being misstepped.

    You nailed it with BUG and Pitch Dredge. There's also StoneBlade, Standstill, and UR Delver w/ Dack/JVP.

    Yes, those decks run missteps, but I'm not bringing in needle against them - or actually ever facing them in a quantity that concerns me (stoneblade is basically non-existent in my meta) and pitch dredge has usually emptied its hand after the first 2 turns or runs out of missteps fighting needles, nihil spellbombs and cages. In other words, misstep is hardly a concern for decks running pithing needle. So, putting aside misstep if for no other reason than to move the conversation forward and away from the obligatory, "You can't play one drops because misstep!!!" red herring - which do you use: needle or spyglass. My gut tells me the match ups I most want the effect in, speed is more important and needle is still the choice.



  • I don't think I really want the Needle effect without the fetchland denial attached. And I think the rate is only good in Shop/Tomb decks. And the synergies only really exist within the decks also running Wastelands and Revokers.

    So, not super interested in this anywhere other than Shops.



  • New Vintage Challenge results on mtgo: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/tournament/vintage-challenge-10913701#paper

    Doesn't look like any shops pilots care for the Spyglass at all! I'm surprised.



  • @kenan said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    New Vintage Challenge results on mtgo: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/tournament/vintage-challenge-10913701#paper

    Doesn't look like any shops pilots care for the Spyglass at all! I'm surprised.

    I'm not. That card is way overrated. It doesn't turn sideways and that is what Shops is so brutally efficient at doing right now. It doesn't shut off as much as a single sphere. Like it isn't THAT good a card folks. Sorry.



  • @stormanimagus the lists I've seen are not eschewing Spyglass for creatures though - they're playing Tangle Wire again.



  • @fsecco said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    @stormanimagus the lists I've seen are not eschewing Spyglass for creatures though - they're playing Tangle Wire again.

    They're playing a card that actually impacts the board, instead of a card MAYBE to screw a couple fetchlands or Planeswalkers (which their putting 20 power on board by turn 3 or revokers do already).

    this card is shit. I look forward to anyone playing it at Eternal Weekend for putting that many dead cards into their deck.



  • @13nova Did I say anything to trigger that kind of blunt response? I'm not even discussing the choices, just stating what's going on. This forum is getting more unpalatable every time I come in. Have no idea why players of such a small format are so obnoxious to each other.



  • @13nova said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    this card is shit. I look forward to anyone playing it at Eternal Weekend for putting that many dead cards into their deck.

    I would like to place money on this card not being shit. Please advise where to send bitcoins.


  • TMD Supporter

    @fsecco said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    This forum is getting more unpalatable every time I come in. Have no idea why players of such a small format are so obnoxious to each other.

    Seriously.



  • I looked at the Vintage Challenge standings and it was just a 5-rounder. Some of those top 32 lists are midway through the standings. 3-2 results - not impressive at all. The fact that not even the mediocre decklists had any copies makes me think that one cannot actually conclude that the card is bad - all this tells us is that it was not even tested. Even if you think that Spyglass is crap, replacing a few random critters with a couple Spyglasses will not make the deck completely unplayable...


  • TMD Supporter

    Which would you rather have? Chief of the Foundry or Socercerous Spyglass? I don't think the answer is clear.



  • @gkraigher If you are saying that perfect information (of an opponent's hand) necessarily decreases as the game progresses, then I follow the logic of your theory, but I disagree. Very often the value goes up in the first couple turns, because by turn 3, 4, 5 one of the players will very likely have a forced win if they play perfectly OR have a way to reduce the opponent's winning chances to something very low, even if the win isn't... deterministic as we like to say.

    This card's interaction with opposing Force of Will is already incredibly valuable, and that value likely peaks around turn 2 or 3. Not to mention the losses that can be saved by discovering that you are playing against a combo deck that is on the verge of going off, so that instead of deploying a beater, one needs to deploy a Wasteland and Lock Piece asap. Even that sort of thing can be the value of half a game, if it prevents immediate death and gets you back to something close to 50/50.


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