[XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass



  • I don't think I really want the Needle effect without the fetchland denial attached. And I think the rate is only good in Shop/Tomb decks. And the synergies only really exist within the decks also running Wastelands and Revokers.

    So, not super interested in this anywhere other than Shops.



  • New Vintage Challenge results on mtgo: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/tournament/vintage-challenge-10913701#paper

    Doesn't look like any shops pilots care for the Spyglass at all! I'm surprised.



  • @kenan said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    New Vintage Challenge results on mtgo: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/tournament/vintage-challenge-10913701#paper

    Doesn't look like any shops pilots care for the Spyglass at all! I'm surprised.

    I'm not. That card is way overrated. It doesn't turn sideways and that is what Shops is so brutally efficient at doing right now. It doesn't shut off as much as a single sphere. Like it isn't THAT good a card folks. Sorry.



  • @stormanimagus the lists I've seen are not eschewing Spyglass for creatures though - they're playing Tangle Wire again.



  • @fsecco said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    @stormanimagus the lists I've seen are not eschewing Spyglass for creatures though - they're playing Tangle Wire again.

    They're playing a card that actually impacts the board, instead of a card MAYBE to screw a couple fetchlands or Planeswalkers (which their putting 20 power on board by turn 3 or revokers do already).

    this card is shit. I look forward to anyone playing it at Eternal Weekend for putting that many dead cards into their deck.



  • @13nova Did I say anything to trigger that kind of blunt response? I'm not even discussing the choices, just stating what's going on. This forum is getting more unpalatable every time I come in. Have no idea why players of such a small format are so obnoxious to each other.



  • @13nova said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    this card is shit. I look forward to anyone playing it at Eternal Weekend for putting that many dead cards into their deck.

    I would like to place money on this card not being shit. Please advise where to send bitcoins.


  • TMD Supporter

    @fsecco said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    This forum is getting more unpalatable every time I come in. Have no idea why players of such a small format are so obnoxious to each other.

    Seriously.



  • I looked at the Vintage Challenge standings and it was just a 5-rounder. Some of those top 32 lists are midway through the standings. 3-2 results - not impressive at all. The fact that not even the mediocre decklists had any copies makes me think that one cannot actually conclude that the card is bad - all this tells us is that it was not even tested. Even if you think that Spyglass is crap, replacing a few random critters with a couple Spyglasses will not make the deck completely unplayable...


  • TMD Supporter

    Which would you rather have? Chief of the Foundry or Socercerous Spyglass? I don't think the answer is clear.



  • @gkraigher If you are saying that perfect information (of an opponent's hand) necessarily decreases as the game progresses, then I follow the logic of your theory, but I disagree. Very often the value goes up in the first couple turns, because by turn 3, 4, 5 one of the players will very likely have a forced win if they play perfectly OR have a way to reduce the opponent's winning chances to something very low, even if the win isn't... deterministic as we like to say.

    This card's interaction with opposing Force of Will is already incredibly valuable, and that value likely peaks around turn 2 or 3. Not to mention the losses that can be saved by discovering that you are playing against a combo deck that is on the verge of going off, so that instead of deploying a beater, one needs to deploy a Wasteland and Lock Piece asap. Even that sort of thing can be the value of half a game, if it prevents immediate death and gets you back to something close to 50/50.



  • I also think it cannot be overstated how having great outs to Dredge game 1 is important in sanctioned tournaments like Eternal Weekend.



  • You are trading off opening hand explosiveness for a card that's pretty mediocre in mirrors where Shop players are copying each others 75s of ABR, WB, WL. Tangle Wire can impact the board and let you push through lethal in otherwise unwinnable board states, wire can allow you to draw into business where you'd otherwise be dead because you have no blue cards.

    It could be the kind of card that moves in and out on the play and draw. We tested some BUG lists vs. internet shops and I can tell you I had to force the card a few times on the draw. Hands like Verdant, DRS, Wasteland, Force, Leovold, Blue Card, Removal ... you don't have to force a Sphere (it's defensible) but I feel like you have to Force Spyglass.



  • @nedleeds said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    You are trading off opening hand explosiveness for a card that's pretty mediocre in mirrors where Shop players are copying each others 75s of ABR, WB, WL.

    I agree with this, and I think this is the best argument that one really should not overload on Spyglasses, at least in the mid-Atlantic metagame, even if they're great against the rest of the field. The Spyglasses are not totally dead in the mirror, but they're pretty bad. Last year at EW I played something like 5 shops mirrors. I don't think I'd be willing to maindeck more than 2 or 3 of these just for this reason.


  • TMD Supporter

    @nedleeds said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    You are trading off opening hand explosiveness for a card that's pretty mediocre in mirrors where Shop players are copying each others 75s of ABR, WB, WL.

    These abbreviations took me well over a minute to parse. I had to pull up a sample deck to figure out WL and I'm still not sure. Wasteland? But then you typed it out later in your post so I'm not entirely sure.



  • After some testing, I decided to try sorcerous spyglass in a little tornament. I ran a null rod shop deck with 3 spyglass. They were never really bad and most of the time i was quite happy to draw them (even in multiple). Several of them met their FOW which is sort of good news. A few ones were critical in the game result.
    I am not yet sold on them and will do more testing but i think i will run only 2 of them.



  • @fsecco said in [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass:

    I also think it cannot be overstated how having great outs to Dredge game 1 is important in sanctioned tournaments like Eternal Weekend.

    Everyone seems to have the "OMG It's a sanctioned event, 60% of the field will be dredge!".

    I have played in championships in 2006, 2008 - 2010, 2012 - current, and I've played against Dredge maybe 5 times total in that period, and I've only played against TWO unintentionally unpowered decks.



  • @fsecco That' just typical him. Do what a lot of people tend to do and ignore haha



  • @albarkhane Null Rod Shops has been the list I've been poking at as well. Tempted to post for discussion in the main strategy board so if this is the wrong thread please feel free to move! The Aggro Shops primer was excellent, but Spyglass has me wondering...

    Could this (along with the restriction of Mentor) perhaps yield a way back in for Prison/Control shops? Back in the spring the general attitude towards Stax type decks is that mentor was too fast and the mirror too aggressive. Could spyglass mitigate in a targeted way in a fashion that thorn could not?

    Again surprised that with such a strong potential there isn't more brew talk around this right now. It's either naysaying or nothing! Are we waiting on a champs breakout? Or is the consensus really so meh? I guess a fella can dream about the return to a more pure control MUD. In any case could people just be squeamish?



  • I think it's people keeping a lid on their "tech".

    I think it is fair to mark every Shops player that plays Spyglass at Champs that naysayed (or kept quiet) in this thread as a person that really doesn't give a damn about moving Vintage forward.

    This isn't Slash Panther. This is -obvious-. Discussion should be flowing. Keeping quiet on it is just sad.


Log in to reply
 

WAF/WHF

Looks like your connection to The Mana Drain was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.