Mono-Red Prison - A Feasible Archetype?



  • Since this is deck is playing 4 Null Rods, I think we shouldn't be playing any Chrome Moxes. As you said, Ruby and Lotus are fine replacements for the first two, but maybe the last 2 should be Lotus Petal and maybe a Crystal Vein or an off-color Mox. I just don't want to two-for-one myself in a deck like this; it lives and dies by its opening hands, and so I don't want to lose a card if I can help it.

    Another question: Is this a deck that wants to play any other sphere effects? In Legacy, I understand that it runs more Trinispheres, but since you can't do that in Vintage, maybe you want some normal Spheres of Resistance instead of other random cards.

    Finally: Is Sulfur Elemental supposed to be in the main and Ensnaring Bridge in the side? I would have naively thought it should be the other way around.



  • Elvish spirit guide plays through null rod.

    But I guess it's nearly identical to chrome Mox in the sense that it's a 1 for 1. But the accelearation doesn't stay on the board.

    Ideally wouldn't this deck just run moxen, lotus, sol ring and crypt?

    I dont think you need 4 Chandras. But I figured the deck plays so many redundant copies of cards because of chrome Mox.

    Maybe chrome Mox is the reason why the deck functions properly. The off color moxen don't produce red.

    Lotus and ruby are obvious inclusions unless you are trying to win an unpowered prize.



  • Out of curiosity, why does lightning bolt not make the cut?

    1 of stranglehold seems legit too.



  • OK, gonna respond to a bunch here. Played in the daily last night and went 2-2, got some additional testing with some cards I hadn't tried yet (Sphere, Flashfires).

    Out of curiosity, why does lightning bolt not make the cut?

    So we don't play any 1s on purpose - the reason is twofold. One, the deck is designed to just cast and play 3s and 4s. Two, it's originally a Legacy Chalice deck - while we're restricted to the single Chalice, we also make Mental Misstep a completely dead card.

    I dont think you need 4 Chandras. But I figured the deck plays so many redundant copies of cards because of chrome Mox.

    Blue decks with a bunch of singletons get away with it because there's so much selection and card draw. We are almost always stuck with what we draw in our first 10 cards. Every single piece needs to be as redundant as possible.

    Ideally wouldn't this deck just run moxen, lotus, sol ring and crypt?

    So it's not immediately clear from the decklist, but this deck often struggles to produce red mana without a moon effect. Additional artifacts (that will get turned off by Null Rod anyway) don't help us there.

    We also, absolutely, under no circumstances, can play Mana Crypt. It will kill us. Often times, we do nothing for turn after turn once the lock is in place.

    1 of stranglehold seems legit too.

    Agreed. Hadn't previously considered this.

    Finally: Is Sulfur Elemental supposed to be in the main and Ensnaring Bridge in the side? I would have naively thought it should be the other way around.

    Yes, because our only other maindeck answer to a good Mentor hand is a Fiery Confluence that somehow doesn't get countered.

    That being said, I did lose 2 games straight last night where Rich Shay just tinkered for the Colossus and I didn't have a bridge.

    Another question: Is this a deck that wants to play any other sphere effects? In Legacy, I understand that it runs more Trinispheres, but since you can't do that in Vintage, maybe you want some normal Spheres of Resistance instead of other random cards.

    I tried this last night with 3 Spheres of Resistance. It is no bueno. Making your 3s cost 4 and your 4s cost 5 hamstrings you SO MUCH. I had a game against Ravager Affinity where I had a sphere in my hand and 2 mana on the board, but couldn't cast it because it would lock me out of the only potential outs I had.

    Since this is deck is playing 4 Null Rods, I think we shouldn't be playing any Chrome Moxes. As you said, Ruby and Lotus are fine replacements for the first two, but maybe the last 2 should be Lotus Petal and maybe a Crystal Vein or an off-color Mox. I just don't want to two-for-one myself in a deck like this; it lives and dies by its opening hands, and so I don't want to lose a card if I can help it.

    Off-color Moxen don't work. This deck NEEDS to be able to produce 2R on turn one with the average hand. Lotus Petal is not terrible.

    I'm still very happy with the Ricochet Traps in their spot - it's been a good card.

    I also tried out Flashfires in the sideboard, but I don't think it is where I want to be. Yes, I can't turn off my opponents' mana completely, but if I'm going to play anything, it needs to be Boil.



  • @gkraigher
    What purpose does Lightning Bolt serve? What is it answering?
    There's limited space in the deck to make this like Stax, and the appeal is that it's mostly Legacy legal.

    I could see Viashino Heretic being included for some more artifact destruction, but in general Fiery Confluence achieves this very effectively.



  • Stranglehold does look very strong in this list, possibly in place of 1 Chandra? Also, would Chaos Warp be useful versus Tinker for you?



  • Yes, it's a feasible archetype. I've been playing this kind of strategy since 2009. You can check the old Morphling.de site for my decklist before (Kitz/Quinn Arreza). Yesterday, we had a local vintage tournament and I made it to the finals but lost to an Oath Storm deck. This is my list:

    12 Mountain
    4 City of Traitors
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    2 Gorilla Shaman
    3 Eidolon of the great Revel
    4 Magus of the Moon
    4 Manic Vandal
    3 Phyrexian Metamorph
    4 Ingot Chewer
    3 Thorn of Amethyst
    4 Null Rod
    3 Blood Moon
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Dead/Gone
    SB:
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    3 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Dismember
    2 Pyroclasm
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    2 By Force

    My match up were:
    R1 vs Paradoxical Mentor 2-0
    R2 vs MUD Prison 2-0
    R3 vs Eldrazi 1-2
    R4 vs Oath Storm (same player I lost to in the finals) 1-2
    R5 vs MUD Prison (He gave me the win and did some playtest) 2-1
    QF vs Eldrazi Taxes 2-1
    SF vs Ballista MUD 2-0
    F vs Oath Storm 1-2 - I've made a bad keep on the play on the 3rd match. I kept a hand of 2 Mountains, 2 Null Rods, 2 Magus of the Moon, 1 Phyrexian Metamorph. My thought were if I could get to my second turn I could play rods and delay him a bit. He combo out on his 1st turn. I should have mull into Leyline or Grafdiggers or maybe a hand that could cast a turn 1 Rods.


  • TMD Supporter

    Sin Prodder seems not to work as well when you need a land, so I assume you'd not play it until you had your 4+ lands in play.

    Which matchups would you want to board in your Sin Prodders? To me you'd bring them in where Ensnaring Bridge will be brought online and dealing direct damage is the line of play?



  • This deck archetype looks so cool. Makes me want to feas the crap outta a playset of Caverns.



  • @downtoonelife Congrats for your 2nd place finish Kitz! I guess Ching was TOO STRONG (and that goes for ALL of us lol). When it comes to TMWA decks, you have to believe this guy; he's playing the deck FOR YEARS and we had our share of battles with each other (me on RG Beatz). Looking forward on playing against you (I'm on Zoo now) and again congrats on your finish.


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