Human Stompy



  • said:

    Heron's Grace Champion

    I love everything but mana crypt, which seems awful in this list. While it fuels thalia 2.0 and the new heron (which btw should be a middle/late card), confidant and missteps go against it. Also maindeck stony silence does not go well with it.

    To be honest, I'll try mayor over knight in this list (with few tweaks with manabase), since heron can cover partially the midrange role. But having playing against you in the past I already know knight power so I could be mistaken.



  • @xouman said:

    said:

    Heron's Grace Champion

    I love everything but mana crypt, which seems awful in this list. While it fuels thalia 2.0 and the new heron (which btw should be a middle/late card), confidant and missteps go against it. Also maindeck stony silence does not go well with it.

    To be honest, I'll try mayor over knight in this list (with few tweaks with manabase), since heron can cover partially the midrange role. But having playing against you in the past I already know knight power so I could be mistaken.

    Yeah, Cutting Mr. Reliquary is not an option at all. It is, quite simply, our best answer to Smasher, Trike and other large fatties and it is the way we lock down the manabase if we land Thalia 2.0. Part of the reason Mana Crypt is fine is that we are likely going to be gaining 12-15 life on a critical later game turn. Mayor is at its best when it has cards like Mantis Rider to pump that will evade blockers and bring the beats big time. In this list we already have the biggest thing on the table in KOTR and the new Knight helps us to win unwinnable games with huge life swings. But yeah, no way in hell I'm cutting KOTR from this list. He's still all star numero uno!

    -Storm



  • Having seen the power of the Hidden Ds and his lifelink I can see the value in the Knight.

    But I suggest trying Damping Matrix over Needle as we discussed above.



  • @Nehptis

    Matrix is kinda a non-bo with Knight of the Reliquary.



  • @Stormanimagus
    Did you have a chance to test against the various variations of storm? The 4 Thalia 1.0 is of course a star, and the 3 Mental Misstep is a help. But Thalia 2.0 might not make it in time, and does not hit all storm types. Stony Silence is no good against rituals and tutors chained. Do you find that your current package is enough?

    If you want more mana acceleration you could consider Elvish Spirit Guides that doesn't have a nonbo with your Stony Silence.

    Besides that, it looks fun to play!



  • @Stormanimagus

    Sorry, I was referring to Heron due to its Lifelink when I used the phrase the Knight, not KotR. I'm not sold yet on KotR, Hence I'd go Matrix>Needle without KotR in the deck.



  • @Nehptis said:

    @Stormanimagus

    Sorry, I was referring to Heron due to its Lifelink when I used the phrase the Knight, not KotR. I'm not sold yet on KotR, Hence I'd go Matrix>Needle without KotR in the deck.

    I will say, having tested with and against Knight of the Reliquary, that it is certainly uncuttable from a list that can support it. He adds a toolbox of sorts as well as being the biggest threat in play normally.



  • @Stormanimagus since you are playing knight of the reliquary, why not have the thespian's stage dark depths combo? It could provide a very quick win and not many spells can deal with it, worst case scenario you gain 20 life.



  • You will get plowed. Probably even twice. Build your deck in such a way that it can handle it. Use 5 colors and use all the power you can get. I recognize all the comments being made here, I experienced the same issues and came to the same conclusions (1-2 years ago....). It is as if I am reading my own reflections through all the posters.

    Make the jump to a more powered and flexible approach. Expand the card pool and start using Sensei Top and Tutors 🙂



  • I like that list. It looks much better than the ones suggested in this thread with cards like Mantis Rider etc. I'm not sure that Heron's Grace Champion is the best thing you can do for 4 mana though.

    That said, there are still a lot of bad suggestions like Falkenrath Aristocrat.



  • @JuzamJim said:

    I like that list. It looks much better than the ones suggested in this thread with cards like Mantis Rider etc. I'm not sure that Heron's Grace Champion is the best thing you can do for 4 mana though.

    That said, there are still a lot of bad suggestions like Falkenrath Aristocrat.

    You seem to underestimate the power of the Haste mechanic. Heron's Grace Champion is exactly what the deck wanted, you cast this during your opponent's turn most of the time as a combat trick most likely, since this deck leaves up Mana quite a bit for cards like Abrupt Decay.



  • @msg67183

    Yeah, and I'm going to update the list to make it even more instant speed by putting the plows maindeck and running grand abolisher (so those plows aren't just misstepped all the time vs. Mentor).

    I recently had a realization that Grand Abolisher could be good again because it stops Eldrazi players from displacing your dudes on your turn so they can't attack. Very interesting.

    -Storm



  • @Stormanimagus said:

    @msg67183

    Yeah, and I'm going to update the list to make it even more instant speed by putting the plows maindeck and running grand abolisher (so those plows aren't just misstepped all the time vs. Mentor).

    I recently had a realization that Grand Abolisher could be good again because it stops Eldrazi players from displacing your dudes on your turn so they can't attack. Very interesting.

    -Storm

    Just remember, if you swords on their turn, they can still Misstep you



  • @msg67183 said:

    @Stormanimagus said:

    @msg67183

    Yeah, and I'm going to update the list to make it even more instant speed by putting the plows maindeck and running grand abolisher (so those plows aren't just misstepped all the time vs. Mentor).

    I recently had a realization that Grand Abolisher could be good again because it stops Eldrazi players from displacing your dudes on your turn so they can't attack. Very interesting.

    -Storm

    Just remember, if you swords on their turn, they can still Misstep you

    I am well aware of that. But like, I don't think it will come up much. Like most eldrazi lists don't run misstep so you are in the clear there at getting smashers (I know you have to discard 1) on their turn, and vs. Mentor lists I think it is often fine to plow the mentor on your turn.

    Here's my latest build. It is running very smoothly thanks, in part, to plow.

    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Mental Misstep
    3 Grand Abolisher
    2 Deathrite Shaman
    2 Noble Hierarch
    3 Knight of the Reliquary
    2 Savannah
    2 Scrubland
    1 Bayou
    4 Windswept Heath
    1 Plains
    1 Forest
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Karakas
    1 Maze of Ith
    4 Cavern of Souls
    3 Abrupt Decay
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Wasteland
    1 Strip Mine
    4 Dark Confidant
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    2 Stony Silence
    2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
    2 Qasali Pridemage
    SB: 1 Mental Misstep
    SB: 1 Stony Silence
    SB: 1 Gaea's Cradle
    SB: 1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    SB: 4 Containment Priest
    SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 3 Heron's Grace Champion
    SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
    SB: 1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar



  • @msg67183 said:

    Heron's Grace Champio

    Heron doesn't have haste. I hope you're not referring to Falkenrath, because that's simply just a bad card. Again, I'm not sure if Heron is your best choice for 4 mana and I think your post supports this. You're really gonna play a 4cc creature to hold up four mana to wait to do some "combat tricks" by giving your creatues +1/+1? I'm sure you could do better. You can even see that Storm has cut it in his latest list. It doesn't surprise me that playtesting proves that it's not good enough.



  • @JuzamJim said:

    @msg67183 said:

    Heron's Grace Champio

    Heron doesn't have haste. I hope you're not referring to Falkenrath, because that's simply just a bad card. Again, I'm not sure if Heron is your best choice for 4 mana and I think your post supports this. You're really gonna play a 4cc creature to hold up four mana to wait to do some "combat tricks" by giving your creatues +1/+1? I'm sure you could do better. You can even see that Storm has cut it in his latest list. It doesn't surprise me that playtesting proves that it's not good enough.

    I was referring to Mantis Rider when I said Haste. He didn't cut Heron, there are 3 copies in his board.



  • just a general question, has odric master tactition been tested with vault of the archangel? i played it in standard with lingering souls forever ago and it was amazing at clearing their board, plus it can just give your creatures evasion, if it has been tested why hasnt it made the cut? i know 4 mana is a lot but the effect feels like it would be very good. if anyone has insight for this please let me know.



  • @msg67183

    Ah, well Mantis Rider is also very bad. Yes, he cut them from the maindeck. That's step 1.



  • @JuzamJim said:

    @msg67183

    Ah, well Mantis Rider is also very bad. Yes, he cut them from the maindeck. That's step 1.

    How is Mantis Rider "bad"? It has haste to attack immediately, Vigilance to block after it attacks, and Flying to Fly over ground blockers. If you run Mayor and Exalted creatures he can get even bigger to bring serious beats.



  • @JuzamJim

    How about actually putting in time and testing with cards before you just say they are bad? If you think Mantis Rider is bad simply because it just attacks and deals damage then Reality Smasher is "bad", but how can this be, its in 2-3 of the best performing decks in the current metagame. Point is, don't judge a book by its cover, put some time into really seeing what it has in store.


 

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