[HOU] Hollow One

  • The bad side of this is that it's too situational. You need Bazaar in order for it to work (since I don't think there are any other good cycling or discarding cards for shops or dredge. Maybe a Fluctuator deck that plays 3-4 of these turn 1?
    Anyway, imagine topdecking this. Shops can pay 5 mana easily in topdeck mode, and if it's not what you want, the cycling comes in handy. I think it deserves at least a bit of testing.

    ps: just remembered Mindless Automaton as a discard outlet, but that feels slow.

  • @fsecco The discard outlets that come to mind are razormane masticore, smuggler's copter, bazzar of baghdad and daretti, scrap savant. Daretti is probably the least playable in a shops brew because it costs 4 mana(none of which can be paid for with workshop) without factoring in resistors. The discard outlets allow you to discard lands that can be brought back with crucible or artifacts that can be brought back with goblin welder. You could also run squee, goblin nabob as a card to fuel your discard engines, however, I have had very limited success with it in testing.

  • I really like this card - seems like it has a LOT of brew-room built in with all of the discarding outlets available in Vintage. Bazaar, Dack, Wheel of Fortune. I don't know for sure if it is good enough to make the cut long-term but it sure looks like it ought to be worth testing!

  • I don't know, the guy is still just a 4/4. That doesn't seem too impressive on its own. Remember that Myr guy that cost 2 if you played a spell? That never saw play and that was a 5/6. I think we need to be doing a lot more than putting 4/4's on the battlefield to make it viable in this format. Casual all star for sure though.

  • In dredge I think the interaction is more so playing this for free t1, sacking it to cabal therapy, getting some tokens and starting your engine if you got a fast start. But if that was a thing the deck really needed to do it could run ornithopter since its just going to get binned.

    It's a cool card, but I don't think it's home is vintage as much as it will be in Modern where people play Faithless looting.

  • It's close. A 5/4 or 4/5 would have been helpful obviously. The main selling point is that it sidesteps all the hate and is a reasonably fast clock if everything goes well. For example as a turn one play while you search for anti-hate you attack on a different axis that is a reasonable clock. Arguments about bad situational cards sometimes don't apply to the traditional dredge builds because of how the deck operates, card that in a vacuum are draft box refuse are all-stars in dredge.

  • Myr Enforcer tells us that a free early-game 4/4 is certainly a powerful piece of pressure in the right deck. Does Hollow One have a right deck, though?

    The main tension is between the need for an aggressive shell that can make use of a 4/4 with no abilities, and the fact that to play him for cheap, you have to discard 3 cards in the early game, when most aggressive decks are pinched on card advantage already.

    The idea of using him as a means of playing Cabal Therapy on the first turn has some merit, but I think the opportunity cost of Hollow One in the dredge deck is just too high. For the purposes of disrupting the opponent, is gambling on Hollow One + Therapy better than running Unmask? I also don't think the extra power on Hollow One is worth the loss of versatility over Bloodghast or Ichorid, after the first turn.

    What are the Vintage-playable Madness cards? I agree completely with fsecco that Bazaar alone makes Hollow One far too inconsistent, but I wonder if cards like Careful Study in a madness shell are more reliable than Fluctuator.dec.

  • Definitely a dredge playable. 0 mana 4/4 with bazaar, and the cycling helps for when you don't have Bazaar.

  • I would venture a guess that this guy could be his own dredge variant if you are not relying on Dread return at all and instead are loading up on self returning dorks. Obviously dropping 2 of these turn one is a scary and unlikely start, but more realistic is probabaly turn one Bazaar and hopefully discard a dredge card and a bloodghast, follow up on turn 2 with ground power.

    Once you start using this to pay for Cabal however, it loses a lot of its utility.

  • The more I think about it, the more I expect this to be played in dredge. It gets around all the graveyard hate.

    Meanwhile, it has this ancillary ability that allows you to draw a card (or dredge) if you need to.

  • TMD Supporter

    @gkraigher said in [HOU] Hollow One:

    The more I think about it, the more I expect this to be played in dredge. It gets around all the graveyard hate.

    Meanwhile, it has this ancillary ability that allows you to draw a card (or dredge) if you need to.

    I totally agree. Not to mention, oftentimes opposing decks water themselves down quite a bit to bring in so much dredge hate, it's quite conceivable that a 4/4 could go the distance.

  • As I said, Hollow One could be part of a good transformational sideboard plan for dredge.
    (I'm just not a good dredge brewer to actually show it how it could be done =/ )

  • I love the obv synergy with bazaar, which then screams dredge, but I think I am gonna test this in an affinity shell that runs 4 of this, 4 myr enforcer, and Thirst for Knowledge. The possibility of multiple 4/4's turn one appeals to me.

  • @gkraigher The thing is, the copies of this could just as easily be serenity or abrupt decay or something that removes the hate, and opens up the much more powerful dredge plan.

  • This looks super good in a vintage Goblins shell! @MSolymossy any thoughts?

  • This guy is a do-nothing 4/4 that can be ignored. Why not just pick up Eldrazi? Also, we have a (2)W Monk with Prowess that makes monk tokens with prowess. As long as a creature doesn't hate/punish or enable a strategy, it will not see serious play.

  • @rikter The problem with anti-hate will always remain that you need to both remove the hate AND go off. Meaning that you need mana + bazaar + the correct anti-hate + find a clock fast enough off your dredging. With this card, you only need Bazaar and even without it you just cycle.

  • Is madness with bazaars and dredgers a better deck than dredge is now?

  • No it is not.

  • TMD Supporter

    If playing Tribal Eldrazi has taught me anything, it's that Aggro Null Rod decks can sometimes be good enough. Red/Green Madness Proof of Concept:

    4 Noose Constrictor
    4 Wild Mongrel
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
    2 Arrogant Wurm
    4 Incorrigible Youths
    2 Reckless Wurm
    4 Hollow One
    3 Honored Hydra

    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Ruby
    4 Null Rod

    4 Bazaar of Baghdad
    1 Riftstone Portal
    1 Snow-Covered Forest
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    1 Strip Mine
    2 Taiga
    4 Wasteland
    4 Wooded Foothills

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