[HOU] Hollow One



  • @gkraigher The thing is, the copies of this could just as easily be serenity or abrupt decay or something that removes the hate, and opens up the much more powerful dredge plan.



  • This looks super good in a vintage Goblins shell! @MSolymossy any thoughts?



  • This guy is a do-nothing 4/4 that can be ignored. Why not just pick up Eldrazi? Also, we have a (2)W Monk with Prowess that makes monk tokens with prowess. As long as a creature doesn't hate/punish or enable a strategy, it will not see serious play.



  • @rikter The problem with anti-hate will always remain that you need to both remove the hate AND go off. Meaning that you need mana + bazaar + the correct anti-hate + find a clock fast enough off your dredging. With this card, you only need Bazaar and even without it you just cycle.



  • Is madness with bazaars and dredgers a better deck than dredge is now?



  • No it is not.



  • If playing Tribal Eldrazi has taught me anything, it's that Aggro Null Rod decks can sometimes be good enough. Red/Green Madness Proof of Concept:

    4 Noose Constrictor
    4 Wild Mongrel
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
    2 Arrogant Wurm
    4 Incorrigible Youths
    2 Reckless Wurm
    4 Hollow One
    3 Honored Hydra

    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Ruby
    4 Null Rod

    4 Bazaar of Baghdad
    1 Riftstone Portal
    1 Snow-Covered Forest
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    1 Strip Mine
    2 Taiga
    4 Wasteland
    4 Wooded Foothills



  • @mickey.nobilis

    I've said it before, I'll say it again, Zodiac Dragon needs to revert back to the text on the only printed copy of the card. It's pretty clear what the cards ability says, and it fits templating both at the time as well as present day.

    If it is too powerful, restrict it.

    I think attacking with a Wild Mongrel for infinite damage is a perfectly fair and reasonable strategy in the current Vintage format. And it would add a ton of diversity to the field.



  • @Ten-Ten said in [HOU] Hollow One:

    This guy is a do-nothing 4/4 that can be ignored. Why not just pick up Eldrazi? Also, we have a (2)W Monk with Prowess that makes monk tokens with prowess. As long as a creature doesn't hate/punish or enable a strategy, it will not see serious play.

    The guy is a 5-turn clock. When dredge wins game 1 the opponent boards in 3-infinity pieces of hate that are all focused on stopping the graveyard and stopping alternative ways of getting creatures into play. Its not at all uncommon for me to plop down a pithing needle or crypt on turn 1 and just sit and draw-go until I have the win. This stops that from being a fully viable strategy. Its no longer a 'win at my leisure' but now its a 'win by turn 4 or 5'. This may not turn all games 2 or 3's into wins, but it will turn enough into wins for dredge to make a difference I think (at least from what dredge players are saying).



  • @rikter

    I think the point is that if you don't know if you are playing against containment priest, rest in peace, or grafdigger's cage, then maybe its best to play a card that can play though all 3 instead of only one of those pieces of hate.

    This card deserves to be tested.



  • My interest with this guy in a transformative sideboard is how much interaction he can still have with the other combo pieces in your list. Starting with the obvious you can run him and Bazaar, but now that you are casing things you almost absolutely need mana so you are looking to include Urborg. Are bloodghasts good enough as 2/1 haste creatures comboed with this and cabal so that you can actually get there against workshops or something similar? Assuming you ignore the hate, is this better than transforming into Dark Depths?


  • Administrators

    @Protoaddct I don't know that the Urborg logic follows. You mentioned "now you are casting things," but the only way to discard anything in most dredge lists is with Bazaar. If you activate Bazaar, this guy is always going to cost 0, this requires no land support at all. If anything this card suggest to me a list with FEWER lands, not more (e.g. you're running this instead of anti-hate cards that you would have had to cast).

    I can't think of any situation in a current Dredge list where you could cast this card for anything other than 0 or 5 (and obviously Urborg isn't going to do much to help you cast this at 5)


  • TMD Supporter

    A 4/4 is a pretty big ass to get around from the perspective of a Workshop pilot. I think this card could greatly affect g2/3 in that matchup. And, as @Brass-Man said, it has little collateral opportunity cost.



  • Weak but useful in dredge. Unfortunately, its game 1 impact is small. However, cards that additionally contribute to a graveyardless strategy post-board are precious and rare.



  • @Brass-Man I mean more so that just playing a 4/4 is likely not going to win you the game, you probabaly need to follow it up with some other stuff, and in the situation I am laying out we are assuming this is a hedge against grave hate. So if your sideboard plan against Leyline of the void is turn 1 bazaar this into play, then turn 2+ probabaly bloodghasts and more of these without access to the yard, you likely need urborg to enable your bazaar to make mana later on since its utility will not be in filling the yard anymore.



  • The other fringe use I thought about is Survival of the Fittest. It's been some time since Survival has seen Vintage play, but this feels better than Rootwalla at the end of the chain.



  • @fsecco rootwalla isn't the end of the chain though, it continues the chain. cycling through some vengevines and finding this at the end to trigger them is the line.


  • Administrators

    @fsecco woah, I was playing a survival/bazaar aggro deck a little last year, I totally missed this interaction. Nice!



  • @BlindTherapy There was a chance you'd get a Rizowalla at the end if you had just 1 mana left (so you'd end up casting 2 Rizowallas to trigger the Vengevines). But you're right: if you have 1 green mana left you can cycle again and pay 0 for Hollow One.


  • Administrators

    @fsecco @BlindTherapy I actually ran Memnite in the deck for a bit to end the chain with one less green mana - it usually means 1 more Vengevine. That one mana means 8 more damage by the end of next turn, which often gives your opponent one less turn to win or draw outs. I'd be a lot happier with Hollow One>Memnite in that slot ... assuming Survival+Vengevine is the sort of thing you want to be doing anyway.


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