NYSE Open V Official Tournament Report



  • NYSE Open V is in the books! With players flying in from Hawaii, Spain, California, Canada, and traveling from all across the U.S., we had 132 competitors! After a grueling eight rounds, our top eight duked it out, and saw Ryan Glackin best Stephen Menendian in a three game set to take the Lotus, trophy, and altered Karn! Congratulations to Ryan Glackin, Stephen Menendian, and all my top 16 competitors!

    1st – Ryan Glackin
    Mustard Shops

    1 Black Lotus
    1 Chalice of the Void
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Pearl
    4 Walking Ballista
    1 Sol Ring
    4 Arcbound Ravager
    4 Phyrexian Revoker
    4 Sphere of Resistance
    4 Thorn of Amethyst
    4 Foundry Inspector
    1 Trinisphere
    3 Fleetwheel Cruiser
    1 Lodestone Golem
    3 Phyrexian Metamorph
    1 Triskelion

    1 Strip Mine
    1 Tolarian Academy
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Mishra’s Factory
    4 Mishra’s Workshop
    4 Wasteland

    SB:

    2 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Dismember
    4 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Karakas
    1 Powder Keg
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Wurmcoil Engine

    2nd – Stephen Menendian
    Jeskai Mentor

    1 Fragmentize
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Stony Silence
    4 Monastery Mentor

    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Mental Misstep
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Ponder
    4 Preordain
    3 Jace, Vryn’s Prodigy
    1 Merchant Scroll
    1 Snapcaster Mage
    1 Time Walk
    4 Force of Will
    1 Gush
    1 Dig Through Time
    1 Treasure Cruise

    2 Pyroblast

    2 Dack Fayden

    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Pearl

    1 Flooded Strand
    1 Island
    1 Library of Alexandria
    1 Misty Rainforest
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Strip Mine
    2 Volcanic Island
    3 Tundra
    4 Scalding Tarn

    SB:

    1 Fragmentize
    1 Balance
    3 Containment Priest
    1 Stony Silence
    1 Pyroblast
    4 Ingot Chewer
    3 Grafdigger’s Cage
    1 Mountain

    3rd – Will Magrann
    Blitzkrieg Shops

    1 Black Lotus
    1 Chalice of the Void
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Pearl
    4 Walking Ballista
    1 Sol Ring
    4 Arcbound Ravager
    4 Phyrexian Revoker
    4 Sphere of Resistance
    4 Steel Overseer
    4 Thorn of Amethyst
    4 Chief of the Foundry
    1 Trinisphere
    3 Phyrexian Metamorph
    1 Lodestone Golem

    1 Strip Mine
    1 Tolarian Academy
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Mishra's Factory
    4 Mishra's Workshop
    4 Wasteland

    SB:

    3 Dismember
    4 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    4 Porcelain Legionnaire

    4th – Nate Hoffman
    Mentor Outcome

    4 Monastery Mentor

    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Mental Misstep
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Ponder
    4 Preordain
    1 Brain Freeze
    1 Hurkyl’s Recall
    1 Merchant Scroll
    1 Time Walk
    4 Force of Will
    4 Paradoxical Outcome
    4 Thoughtcast
    1 Dig Through Time
    1 Treasure Cruise

    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Pearl
    4 Mox Opal
    1 Mana Vault
    2 Sensei’s Divining Top
    1 Sol Ring

    1 Island
    1 Tolarian Academy
    2 Flooded Strand
    2 Tundra
    4 Seat of the Synod

    SB:

    4 Fragmentize
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Balance
    1 Flusterstorm
    2 Steel Sabotage
    2 Hurkyl’s Recall
    2 Mindbreak Trap
    1 Plains

    5th-8th - Vito Picozzo

    1 Fragmentize
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Stony Silence
    4 Monastery Mentor

    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Mental Misstep
    1 Ponder
    4 Preordain
    3 Jace, Vryn’s Prodigy
    1 Merchant Scroll
    1 Snapcaster Mage
    1 Time Walk
    4 Force of Will
    1 Gush
    1 Dig Through Time
    1 Treasure Cruise

    2 Pyroblast

    2 Dack Fayden

    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Pearl

    1 Island
    1 Library of Alexandria
    1 Plains
    1 Strip Mine
    1 Wasteland
    2 Volcanic Island
    3 Scalding Tarn
    3 Tundra
    4 Flooded Strand

    SB:

    2 Fragmentize
    1 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Balance
    1 Containment Priest
    2 Rest in Peace
    1 Stony Silence
    1 By Force
    1 Pyroblast
    1 Ingot Chewer
    3 Grafdigger’s Cage
    1 Mountain

    5th-8th – Dan Nelson
    Car Shops

    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Chalice of the Void
    4 Walking Ballista
    1 Sol Ring
    4 Arcbound Ravager
    4 Phyrexian Revoker
    4 Sphere of Resistance
    4 Thorn of Amethyst
    3 Foundry Inspector
    4 Tangle Wire
    1 Trinisphere
    2 Fleetwheel Cruiser
    1 Lodestone Golem
    1 Phyrexian Metamorph
    1 Precursor Golem

    1 Strip Mine
    1 Tolarian Academy
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Mishra’s Factory
    4 Mishra’s Workshop
    4 Wasteland

    SB:

    4 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    2 Crucible of Worlds
    2 Coercive Portal
    1 Phyrexian Metamorph
    2 Precursor Golem

    5th-8th – Jose Antonio Alascio Lopez

    3 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Monastery Mentor

    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Mental Misstep
    1 Ponder
    3 Preordain
    2 Jace, Vryn’s Prodigy
    1 Merchant Scroll
    1 Snapcaster Mage
    1 Time Walk
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    4 Force of Will
    1 Gush
    1 Dig Through Time
    1 Treasure Cruise

    1 By Force
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Sudden Shock

    1 Dack Fayden

    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Pearl

    1 Library of Alexandria
    1 Plains
    1 Strip Mine
    2 Island
    2 Scalding Tarn
    3 Tundra
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Flooded Strand

    SB:

    1 Path to Exile
    1 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Containment Priest
    1 Disenchant
    1 Rest in Peace
    2 Stony Silence
    1 Energy Flux
    1 Mindbreak Trap
    1 Pyroblast
    1 Sudden Shock
    1 Supreme Verdict
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Grafdigger’s Cage

    5th-8th – Mickey Mahr

    1 Black Lotus
    1 Chalice of the Void
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Pearl
    4 Walking Ballista
    1 Sol Ring
    4 Arcbound Ravager
    4 Phyrexian Revoker
    4 Sphere of Resistance
    4 Thorn of Amethyst
    4 Foundry Inspector
    1 Trinisphere
    3 Fleetwheel Cruiser
    1 Lodestone Golem
    3 Precursor Golem
    1 Wurmcoil Engine

    1 Strip Mine
    1 Tolarian Academy
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Mishra’s Factory
    4 Mishra’s Workshop
    4 Wasteland

    SB:

    2 Dismember
    3 Tormod’s Crypt
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    4 Grafdigger’s Cage
    2 Crucible of Worlds
    2 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Ghost Quarter

    I made this announcement at the beginning of the day, and it’s time to make it again; the NYSE Open may be my tournament, but it’s only possible because of the help of several others. Nick Coss and Calvin Hodges, thank you for all that you do to help this event possible, Visna Harris, thank you for all you’ve done with the trophies, Greg Fenton, thank you for the beautiful images that you produce, year after year, Mike Lupo and Andy Probasco, thank you for your excellent work on coverage, Elliot Raff, and all my judges, thank you for your work on the day!

    We had 132 players at this year’s event, which is lighter than I had hoped for. Every dollar that was taken in (and more) went out in the form of prize support, staff, venue, etc. I haven’t made up my mind yet as to whether or not I want to run another NYSE Open, but if I do, and you enjoyed this year’s event, or have enjoyed past events, please pass the word along. This event survives on the back of the support from the community. I think we’ve found our permanent venue (multiple complaints of it being too cold in the venue were actually music to my ears).

    Thank you again to the dealers, judges, staff, and the players, for making the event as much fun as it was.


  • TMD Supporter

    RELEASE THE GLACKIN!!!!!


  • TMD Supporter

    Did the first place list not have a sideboard?

    EDIT: I see it now, thanks!

    EDIT2: Wow, ratchet bomb is hilarious tech against PO.



  • Congrats to the top 8 participants. Everyone had really good things to say about the new location. I hope to get home to New York and make next year.

    The actual format is supremely depressing. 100% of the top 8 with either 4 x Misstep or 4 x Thorn. Yawn. #thornsandmissteps

    Edit: The coverage was fantastic as well! Having dedicated commentary was great. My only suggestion might be to try to enforce better proxies if you want to get on camera. Or as they started doing later in the event, keep a box of proxies that don't look like garbage in the feature area. Some peoples proxies were scribbled the morning of (cough Steve cough) and were unreadable.



  • @nedleeds what I think is more depressing is that all the blue decks in the top 8 ran mentor...



  • 4 Shops decks and 4 Mentor decks in the top 8. Snore. Clearly the restrictions of Probe and Gush did not do anything to hurt Mentor, as Stephen and others predicted.

    Although I don't think it would fix the problem with the super boring Vintage meta, Misstep should be restricted.



  • Are there data about or decklists of the t16/t32? I'd be interested to see if interesting ideas got close to t8.


  • Administrators

    @kenan chubbyrain and diophan are working on it, but it takes a while to process 140 lists :D



  • @kenan I finished top 25 with a 4c build that I genuinely feel is right there. I did get rolled by Mentor 2x, but going into round 6 was 5-0 with wins over Outcome w/defense grids, Leovold Bug, and shops x3. All three losses were to eventual t8'ers, but the wheels really came off on me rds 6-8. I can really only point to a single brutal missplay all day (on stream, vs Will Magrann). It does nothing fancy (except consecrated sphynx...was undefeated in games where it resolved) and rewards tight play. Will post my decklist, and am hoping to play my latest edition in the daily tonight.



  • @Prospector said in NYSE Open V Official Tournament Report:

    @nedleeds what I think is more depressing is that all the blue decks in the top 8 ran mentor...

    That's depressing also. Be sick if you could resolve plow or fatal push through the wall of missteps. Maybe even Thoughtseize the stupid thing. Or resolve Dread of Night, or resolve Illness in the Ranks. But I guess I can run my own 4 x Missteps. Oh ... that's why everyone not playing 4 x Thorn plays 4 x Missteps. Oh that's why the piece of phyrexian idiocy is banned in every other format.

    Anyway, no shade at the players who were obviously trying to win but its just really getting old.



  • @nedleeds I just gave up and got rid of my cards on MTGO and in paper that didn't actively go into the Mentor Strategy.

    Can't beat em, join em.


  • TMD Supporter

    I have to ask the question everyone is dying to know:

    Why "Mustard" Shops? What does it mean!!?



  • @desolutionist said in NYSE Open V Official Tournament Report:

    I have to ask the question everyone is dying to know:

    Why "Mustard" Shops? What does it mean!!?

    Nick Dijohn (Mustard) Shops


  • Administrators

    @nedleeds can you seriously not think of any 2 drops that answer creatures? The fact that you can't Fatal Push a Mentor through Misstep isn't holding any archetypes back.

    The best cards at killing Monastery Mentor (Sudden Shock, Sulfur Elemental, Supreme Verdict, Balance) don't even cost one. Those cards would still be the best cards at killing Monastery Mentor even if Misstep was banned.

    There might be a few good arguments against Misstep out there, but you can't just take every random data point and say they all fit your hypothesis



  • @Brass-Man

    I think those cards are:

    A) Very narrow

    and

    B) Tempo losses in terms of mana efficiency.

    What makes Mentor so broken is that, if you try to trade profitably for it (i.e with STP) in terms of mana, they have this free way to generate a slightly watered down seeker of the way and if you fight over it they might have another and then you've just been blown out. The efficiency of Misstep is precisely the issue I think @nedleeds has with it. It funnels deck building to awkward places just to TRY and have a chance vs Mentor and then Mentor decks STILL take down events and clog up top 8s. If it had been my choice a couple months ago I would have restricted Mentor and Misstep. . . Easily.

    -Storm



  • Monastery Mentor is to Vintage what Time Vault was to vintage from 2008-2012 and what tendrils of afony was to vintage from 2006-2008. Honestly, if mentor would just go away, all us blue players would just okay the best win condition available to us. Then people will and moan because the Gods Pharoahs Gift Goblins deck was getting smoked on Cockatrice.
    Blue mages playing the best available win condition is nothing new.


  • Administrators

    @Stormanimagus

    I 100% agree that the cards I mentioned (with the exception of Balance) are very narrow.

    I don't quite follow your second point about trading up. Sudden Shock still costs less than Mentor does, so it's still a tempo swing in your favor, and unlike Swords to Plowshares it doesn't usually leave a Monk behind. I really don't think that Swords to Plowshares is very good against Mentor (especially compared to the 2 drops I mentioned), and don't think it would be a good anti-Mentor direction to take, even in the absence of Misstep.

    Still, that's kind of beside the point. An argument about Swords to Plowshares vs Sudden Shock against Mentor is a pretty fantastic thing to have on the Drain. I don't like your second point, but I could be totally wrong, and that discussion is a pretty interesting one. If the strategy boards were filled with discussions like this, I would cry sweet tears of brass joy :D.

    My frustration is from the initial post, and I don't want to single out nedleeds because there are TONS of posters who do this – but I think it has become a very common thing in vintage to come up with a theory about the metagame, and work that theory into every thread, regardless of whether the subject of that thread actually makes a good case for their argument. I actually have very strong opinions about whether Misstep should be restricted or not, but they aren't relevant to this thread so I won't mention them. I think there are solid arguments for and against the card, but "you can't Thoughtseize or Fatal Push against Mentor" isn't one of them, and when you make that argument it just weakens all of your good ones.

    As sick as some people obviously are of Misstep, or Shops, or Mentor, or I swear to you there are still people complaining about Dredge and Eldrazi and Vault/Key or whatever else ... People who actually enjoy playing vintage are sick of not being able to talk about vintage without hearing every tired argument over and over again.



  • @Brass-Man

    Amen to that. Vintage is too often the "spin zone" where no ones opinions come without a metric ton of baggage. That said, I do think that results are starting shown a homogenized set of cards that Mentor decks run that just win games. My one counter to your point that sudden shock is readily awesome vs. Mentor is this: it isn't the "Swiss army knife" that blue players have been spoiled by in swords to plowshares. STP answers a Mentor while simultaneously answering:

    Any shop dude no matter how many times it gets pumped by a ravager.

    Blightsteel or really any robot not named inkwell leviathan.

    Random hatebears (including x/3 or bigger ones)

    TKS and Reality Smasher as well as Eldrazi Displacer

    Those are just the key ones. Plow's utility is in saving you design space and in a world where blue decks are stretched thinner and thinner that diverse applicability is at a premium.

    Also, to your point about mana tempo.

    I don't think 2 mana for a 3 mana threat is enough tempo value when you are also trying to make up for the 1-3 tokens they've likely generated by that point.

    I fundamentally think the tempo race has changed in Vintage to the point where you need to run crazy tempo swing plays just to keep up these days. I hope that clarifies some of my thoughts.

    -Storm



  • @Brass-Man said in NYSE Open V Official Tournament Report:

    @nedleeds can you seriously not think of any 2 drops that answer creatures? The fact that you can't Fatal Push a Mentor through Misstep isn't holding any archetypes back.

    The best cards at killing Monastery Mentor (Sudden Shock, Sulfur Elemental, Supreme Verdict, Balance) don't even cost one. Those cards would still be the best cards at killing Monastery Mentor even if Misstep was banned.

    Sure. But you know efficacy is king in Vintage. The opportunity cost of holding up (or getting to) 2 or 3 mana is greater than 1. Let's be clear, if Mental Misstep cost actual mana we wouldn't be looking at the depressing state of deck building in Vintage. Free is better than 1 is better than 2, you already know this obviously. Something like Sudden Shock is so much worse vs. everything but Mentor it's a liability. Holding up 2 mana and impeding your own development is a cost. Its the disgusting no opportunity cost of phyrexian mana that is the crux of the problem. Play it or don't bother with 1's is what got it banned in Legacy. But in Vintage the problem snowballed post Core 2014.

    Pyromancer
    Dack
    Delve
    Mentor

    (in chrono-order)

    Prior to pyromancer Misstep was played in blue decks but it was rarely a 4 of in large top 8's (Bazaar, Champs, Gencon 80+ man). A blend of pierce, sabotage, snare. Also worth noting pre-Pyro Gush is a bit player, getting out performed in those biggest Vintage events by bolas control, bug fish, rug delver. Gush is seen in storm decks mostly or the intrepid doomsday pilot.

    But after Pyromancer the value of maxing out on free spells started an ascension. The go wide approach encouraged tapping out with a lower curve and starting a probe, misstep caligulian orgy of tokens. Then comes dack, a lower to the ground planeswalker with splash damage against LSG. Dack turbo charges Gush while filtering the excess lands you don't need because your spells are free anyway, just like Garfield intended. Now we see 16 free spell decks. This is unprecedented in type 1.

    Next came the dumbest mistake of all in delve. We all know how that turned out, Probe becomes +1 mana, perfect info and card neutral. Misstep is +1 mana, counter a spell for free. Dack is Rite of Flame. Delve synergized so well with all the aforementioned mechanics the deck basically built itself.

    Then we get Mentor which with prowess and 2 initial toughness is much tougher to hate out than pyromancer (remember Slice and Dice?).

    But magic and vintage in general has a stickiness to it. We have 1 gush but nothing in principle has changed. The most efficient rule, but free is king. If you take Misstep away a mentor player may have to think about running a mentor out after tapping out. You may push the fundamental turn back one, or pressure the mentor player into playing a 'naked' mentor.

    The aforementioned textless cards that have no hope of resolving (barring missteping the misstep ... which as I've said is the incestuous deck building and play pattern that got it banned) can proactively deal with mentor. Additionally cards like DRS or Noble Hierarch which currently read Target Opponent loses 2 life and discards a Misstep help in the shop matchup by getting onboard mana through thorn.

    There might be a few good arguments against Misstep out there, but you can't just take every random data point and say they all fit your hypothesis

    This isn't true. The data points aren't random. Misstep and Thorn have crested 90% and hit 100% here at the NYSE. This is an awful state of deck building in type one.

    I'm no fan of Mentor, but I think deck builders could attack it more effectively if the misery of misstep was removed.

    Edit: and this longer post that isn't directly addressing the contents of the top 8 should really just go in the bnr thread.



  • @Stormanimagus said in NYSE Open V Official Tournament Report:

    I fundamentally think the tempo race has changed in Vintage to the point where you need to run crazy tempo swing plays just to keep up these days. I hope that clarifies some of my thoughts.

    -Storm

    Exactly. Because you are in many cases competing with free.


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