[HOU] Tragic Lesson

  • TMD Supporter

    @Brass-Man said in [HOU] Tragic Lesson:

    That means that IF this card is playable, it HAS to be in a deck that uses "bounce a land" as upside, rather than a drawback. I wouldn't look at this card with anything that didn't have an explicit plan around that.

    Vintage... Lands? (I'm... Ron Burgundy?)

    I know there's a thread somewhere on tmd for a Lands deck, so maybe this spell fits there. Probably still needs a Fastbond unrestriction, but hey it's something!

  • This is vintage-playable. It would be nice to discard Take Inventory!

  • @Saya said in [HOU] Tragic Lesson:

    This is vintage-playable.It would be nice to discard Take Inventory!

    Or, you know, Accumulated Knowledge.

  • @Brass-Man For me a sorcery speed spell needs to be as powerful as Painful Truths to be considered. Compulsive Research is OK I guess, but I don't like it being a sorcery that can easily be CA +0.

    About Tragic Lesson, maybe the best it can do is untap a Tolarian Academy, so maybe a 1-of in Academy decks could be something?

  • @fsecco I probably confused things with an instant vs sorcery debate (I think that's a good discussion, but maybe for another thread). To make a more direct point:

    If a card was printed that was simply "2U, instant, draw 2 cards" I do not think that card would be good enough to play. Since that card doesn't exist and Divination does, I used that as comparison, but the Sorcery speed confused the conversation.

    Just drawing 2 cards for 3 mana at instant speed is not a vintage quality card, and this is that effect with a drawback.

    Therefore we have to do better than just cancel out the drawback. If we built a deck that completely eliminated the drawback, the card would just become an instant Divination (i.e. not good enough). So in order to even consider the card we need some idea that completely reverses the drawback and makes up for the fact that the base card is so weak. That is, you need to be playing a deck that would be willing to pay a mana and/or a card just for the effect "return a land to your hand." I just don't know if an extra tap from Academy would be worth that? I'd have to have more details, I think 😄

  • Also to abuse its effect you would be casting it mainphase to replay w ever land, negating the fact its an instant.

    IMO Frantic Search is better. I doubt this will see play. Its cute, but 3 cards would been cuter.

  • TMD Supporter

    @Brass-Man said in [HOU] Tragic Lesson:

    "build your own Night's Whisper"

    Love it. (I also didn't know you could quote single lines of text with a simple highlight. Love that too.

  • @Brass-Man I don't want to risk further derailing the thread towards a discussion on instants vs. sorceries in Vintage, but I just have to comment because that's something that I've found to be a noteworthy truth in Vintage, as well.

    Historically, leaving mana up for counterspells and using unspent mana on instant speed draw spells is how control decks operated, but control has had a major paradigm shift in most formats towards being more proactive (instead of reactive). There's a lot of reasons for why this has happened, which I won't get into for this thread (spoiler: it has a lot to do with modern day design philosophy of Magic), but in Vintage, this takes the form of "tempo style decks" that use proactive draw spells like Gush and proactive threats like Mentor, backed up by free or near-free counterspells (Force, Misstep, Pyroblast, Flusterstorm). Older, Weissman style decks have been quite fringe for a long time now, and so Instant speed card draw really isn't as important as it used to be.

  • The most interesting thing about this card to me, is that it's one of the first blue cards in awhile that might be better for a big blue setup, than for tempo. The instant lets you hold up a Mana Drain, then play this on the endstep. There is an incredible lack of those cards for big blue right now, given Brainstorm's restriction.

    With that said, I don't know if this is good enough to matter. It seems easy to compare it to Thirst, which doesn't seem great right now. But something that at least contributes to Thirst showing up infrequently in top 8s, is that it's inherently linked to Mox heavy decks, and that makes it a bit on the weak side against Null/Stony Silence/Taxing effects. This thing doesn't tie you down to having to play a ton of artifacts, and you can duck Waste effects with it too, so people trying to tie up your mana should have a bit of a harder time against this in theory.

  • @DeaTh-ShiNoBi I'd LOVE to see an extensive article written about that kind of subject. I feel there's been quite some time since anyone tried to re-evaluate strategies like that in a good written piece.