Snuff out was a house for me at EE and the 5 weeks after of top 4s and top 8s
Also not sure why we're eschewing fatal push here?

Snuff Out is a real option. BUT: 1. It can't be Snapped back, and 2. Fatal Push is approx. as unreliable as Murderous Cut and can be misstepped. That said it is close; I think I give the nod to Murderous Cut over all.

I still think Engineered Explosives should be a 2 of somewhere in that 75. Also I've been noticing some lists utilizing Baral and Night's Whisper. Obv nobo with Painful Truths, but amazing with Night's Whisper and/or Skeletal Scrying. Also have you tried or considered Sylvan Library?

@boggyb said in 4C Keeper 2k17:

Snuff Out is a real option. BUT: 1. It can't be Snapped back,

Given how much mana I've had in the late game, 4UB isn't that bad.

@Serracollector said in 4C Keeper 2k17:

I still think Engineered Explosives should be a 2 of somewhere in that 75.

What number are you most wanting to EE at? 0 for Monks?

Zero for Monks, Zero for Mana Rocks in PO, 2 for Spheres and 99% of MUDs creature base, or just zero to wreck Moxen after getting a Crucible/Wasteland lock. All of these scenerios seem good in the MUs you expect.

@thecravenone The main function of that removal spell slot is to kill shops creatures. UB4 + double spheres is totally uncastable unless you have already won the game. What you want to do against shops is just grind their threats and spheres down and emerge on turn 4-5 with an at least healthy mana base, a decent board, and some cards in your hand, and you will usually win. The bridge to get there is to 1-for-1 remove their stuff, and Snapcaster is a good tool there to buy back a removal spell and trade/chump in combat to help you make it to the end game. With snuff out he's totally useless. I think Dismember is very strictly better in this list than Snuff Out given the presence of Snapcaster, and Cut is probably better than Dismember.

last edited by boggyb

How awesome is Ob Nixilis?

@sovarius In testing it was fantastic when it resolved, often killing a Mentor or Revoker on the spot. Double black was sometimes a problem, but I have since tweaked this list to include a badlands, as it helped smooth out some of the inconsistencies in the manabase.

It is definitely a card with a great WTF factor from opponents, but a second EE, or additional spot removal is probably better long term.

@p3temangus Hi I just got into vintage and am very interested in 4c Leo decks. I was wondering if you had any updates to your list? So far I've playtested a version with 4 bobs and bolts, and kolaghans command and it's been a complete blast (only had match ups against Grixis Thieves and 2 Card Monte)

I've been interested in fitting Kess in somewhere in the deck too.

@bscheidemann Happy to hear you are interested. There have been lots of folks playing 4C Leo Variants lately, though I think most of them have cut Drains and Sphinx toward the Dack/Delve Package. Sphinx is my favorite card printed in the past 10 years so I Jam it in wherever I feel free to cut it. Here is my current list. the third preordain could easily be Ponder, Drains could easily be extra pyroblasts or spell snare if you expect a lot of Oath & Shops. Sphinx could become tasigur, a third leo, or third Shaman. The only other change I have considered is going down to 6 fetches for a badlands to sure up the black and red count, but would only do that if I cut Drains.

7 fetch
2 underground sea
2 tropical island
2 island
2 volcanic island
1 strip mine
4 mox
1 black lotus
2 Deathrite shaman
2 leovold
3 snapcaster mage
1 consecrated sphynx
2 lightning bolt
3 abrupt decay
4 force of will
3 mental misstep
2 mana drain
1 flusterstorm
1 pyroblast
1 dig through time
1 treasure cruise
3 preordain
1 ancestral recall
1 time walk
1 brainstorm
2 jace the mind sculpter
2 ancient grudge
2 dack fayden


Thanks for getting back to me! The list looks great. I’m sure it makes for some real grindy games. I’m going to my first vintage event this weekend and looking forward to running some sort of Leovold deck!

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