SMIP # 68: Hour of Devastation Vintage Set Review


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    @Brass-Man said in SMIP # 68: Hour of Devastation Vintage Set Review:

    @mickey.nobilis are you seriously doing this? I have this deck on MTGO right now

    Is it posted anywhere? Would love to see!


  • Administrators

    @Smmenen it's not anywhere, yet ... I've tested 0 games with Hollow One, but I had a similar "for fun" list with Memnite (Hollow One is a strict upgrade) a while back.

    I haven't fully decided on whether I want GSZ or not, and whether I want to splash any colors. I plan on playing a few games this weekend though to get some rough directional data, and I can post what I end up with afterwards!


  • TMD Supporter

    @Stormanimagus said in SMIP # 68: Hour of Devastation Vintage Set Review:

    Regarding Ramunap Excavator. I think you need to consider how this might fit into W/g Eldrazi with Horizon Canopy and Ancient Tomb. That deck seems like a natural fit for this card. There was no discussion of THAT deck and I think that is a major oversight. Just sayin'.

    True, but I was very bullish on Ramunap Excavator, which I praised quite a bit. G/W Eldrazi seems like a natural place for him, among others.

    Although the format is strangled at the top by Workshops, Mentor, and, to a lesser extent, PO, there is still ample room for innovators to develop new strategies or enhance existing ones with tools from this set.



  • You sounded pretty high on Tragic Lesson being a viable card in Vintage Steve, do have an actual home in mind for it, or is that more speculative about it having one in the future?


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    @Hydra said in SMIP # 68: Hour of Devastation Vintage Set Review:

    You sounded pretty high on Tragic Lesson being a viable card in Vintage Steve, do have an actual home in mind for it, or is that more speculative about it having one in the future?

    That card is the biggest enigma to me in the set, in terms of being both the most interesting card but also the hardest to know. It hits all of the bells and whistles in my head that scream playable, and also something that would slip under the radar, but it's also the kind of card that's pretty impossible to know until it's been tested out. I'll probably try a singleton in Mentor just to get a feel for it, and then go from there. I'm definitely bullish, but there is a wide scope of possibility for me to be wrong with a low floor as well.



  • @Smmenen That's where I'm at with it too, I definitely feel like it can do work, but where and how is kind of the tricky bit. Being able to pick up land to either re-use or filter away is definitely something that has proven useful in the past so it'll likely remain on my radar far longer than most draw does for potential.

    I also find it ironic that the card also synergizes well with Kefnet himself, which while probably not good enough in the Mentor world tempts me as a big evasive guy for cheap that blocks most any creature Shops or Eldrazi will throw at you. I know Brian Kelly tested him briefly but the Gush restriction made turning him on unreliable. Maybe this fixes that.



  • @desolutionist Sure but if you are wanting to win on the Oath turn, why not run either the Golden Gun package, or Salvagers?

    Locust God will win the game in those cases where you have Beck in hand and it doesn't get countered, sure. The rest of the time (i.e. the vast majority) you get a 4/4 durdler when instead you could have a Yawgmoth's Bargain with a 7/7 lifelink body.


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    @evouga

    I don't think it's good, but just reinforcing the idea that there is an infinite combo with this particular token generator



  • @Smmenen I agree with you on your assessment of this set. I like it a lot. There isn't any game changer as far as I can see, but Oh am I GLAD we don't have a Monastery Mentor or Dack Fayden or whatever every set. Abrade is a possible staple, and there are a lot of other great role players for the format in the mid-long term. I really like it.

    And thanks for the Tragic Lesson bit. I posted it here during spoiler season and the trolls couldn't contain themselves. Nice to see you have the same inclinations regarding it as I do. :)

    A few comments on cards:
    Scavenger Grounds: it's reusable if you have another deserts like Hostile Desert or whatever. So it's not a 1 time thing IF you actually play another desert (Hostile Desert is probably the only playable one - there's is the bad combo with Dunes of the Dead for you to get a 2/2 zombie, but that's just bad I guess).

    Bloodwater Entity: there is 1 use I thought for it that is to return miracles to the top of the library. Bonfire of the Damned comes to mind for an UR damage oriented deck - since is can kill a bunch of mentors while leaving your now 3/3 flyer alone.

    Firebrand Archer: just a minor difference between this and Young Pyromancer or Guttersnipe. This trigger off Moxen, etc, too. So it can deal a bunch of damage in decks with Paradoxical Outcome for example. I don't think it's better than Mentor or even Pyromancer, but it's something to note.


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    Would folks find it useful if we published a table with each podcast that included our final predictions? Or would it be a disincentive to listen? Just curious.



  • @Smmenen publishing a table would be very helpful in a sense that if you see the table you will still need to listen to the 'cast to find out why such verdict on a certain card; plus the side comments and stuff : )



  • @Smmenen I'd say you should publish a table in the yearly review of the cast. Publishing it every episode sounds bad to me. I love not knowing where you guys stand while you're talking about the card.

    (edit: kinda like a Moxie for "Achievement in Predictions" :P )


  • TMD Supporter

    @Smmenen said in SMIP # 68: Hour of Devastation Vintage Set Review:

    Would folks find it useful if we published a table with each podcast that included our final predictions? Or would it be a disincentive to listen? Just curious.

    If you included a "Do you agree with Kevin or Steve?" poll with each item it I could see it still engaging the audience. It would be fun to see how the players align with the hosts.



  • @Smmenen said in SMIP # 68: Hour of Devastation Vintage Set Review:

    Would folks find it useful if we published a table with each podcast that included our final predictions? Or would it be a disincentive to listen? Just curious.

    I think a table like that would be a way to engage players like myself. I can post from work and jump online a bit here and there. But I don't have 1 1/2 to 2 hours to listen. I'm very interested in what you guys have to say and follow these threads when they are posted, but don't have any real meaningful way to engage in the content.



  • @Khahan I usually listen on my way to work, in several parts when they go longer. It's a pretty good way to pass time, actually. (tip: I also listen while doing the dishes, which takes away the boring part)


  • TMD Supporter

    @Khahan said in SMIP # 68: Hour of Devastation Vintage Set Review:

    @Smmenen said in SMIP # 68: Hour of Devastation Vintage Set Review:

    Would folks find it useful if we published a table with each podcast that included our final predictions? Or would it be a disincentive to listen? Just curious.

    I think a table like that would be a way to engage players like myself. I can post from work and jump online a bit here and there. But I don't have 1 1/2 to 2 hours to listen. I'm very interested in what you guys have to say and follow these threads when they are posted, but don't have any real meaningful way to engage in the content.

    Yeah, I recommend listening to the podcast, like any other podcast, when you are doing other things, like driving/commuting, working out, cleaning up, cooking, etc.



  • (Un)Fortunately I only have a 7 min commute to work. And my work day is spent on the phone or reviewing with customers. I may get 5 mins here or there. I could use your table of contents and hit specific parts of interest but I doubt I'll get a chance to listen to a full 2 hour or even half hour portion of the show.



  • @Brass-Man I'd be very interested in some feedback on your tests, if you had time to do some. Do you have enough gas to beat mentor ?



  • Hey guys, great podcast as usual.

    I was surprised that you found Tragic Lesson so interesting; it seems to be that it's a big dud. I listened to you discuss how it bounces lands so it actually loads your hand with 3 cards, and how it has similarities to Thirst for Knowledge and Gush, and all of that. At the end of the day, though, I think you missed the forest for the trees.

    The forest is this: Tragic Lesson costs 3, and for that price, you get to replace the card and dig 2 deep into your deck. This is Divination territory in a format where we can draw 3 mana for U.

    Yes, you can also bounce your lands to generate mana, save them from wasteland, or simply keep more cards in your hand if you need to do that. But, these are situation-dependent uses.

    The only use case that is likely to come up reliably is generating mana. "Right," you say, "and that's a lot of the reason why Gush is so good." Kind of. Gush is also free to cast, so the act of tapping UU and Gushing to replay a land generates mana. With Tragic Lesson, you have to spend 3 to get the ball rolling, so all that a replay does is gives you the option to play it for 1U if you do so at sorcery speed (because it has to be your turn still to get the land drop). Is a card that is situationally a Predict good?

    Spending 3 mana to counter a wasteland is generally not a workable solution, since there will be many situations where the mana denial strategy prevents you from ever getting there. I love me some Rack and Ruin, but it sees no play over 1 casting cost removal spells.

    And then we come to the comparison to Thirst and Compulsive Research. Thirst at 3 mana digs 3 deep and puts them all in your hand; and then it lets you put an artifact halfway into play by binning it. That's a ton of reliable, non-situational value that is better than Tragic's best case scenario.

    This smells more like Research. You trade sorcery speed and 3 cards with discard for instant speed and 2 cards plus shenanigans. And while, as you mention, people tinker with Research, it realistically sees no active play today.

    All in all, I think you guys may have gone too deep into this card. It's not a very nice-looking forest.


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