Two Card Monte
Not an expert, but I feel I'm going to start tinkering with @Shaman-Ben's list. I'm undecided on what I'm going to do completely. The thing I find about the deck, it's not a negative, is I'm hesitant on going all in as much as this list appears to want to do. I think that's a bit against my play style, so I think I need to tweak it there. My win rate with the deck is not good in my limited experience, but I'm going to chalk that up due to variance and misplays (not taking anything away from my opponents - I've played some extremely good players). I think my number one misplay is somehow managing to forget to put down Leyline turn 0 on ocassion. That cost me a round yesterday (Not guaranteed, but way higher percentage).
What I found about this list and feel free to chime in Ben. I talked to him a bit about this. I noticed a few things.
I have a tendency to draw too many lands or not enough. I end up with a lot of dead hands, mulliganing to oblivion. Obviously, there is variance that probably has more to do with it, but something I noticed yesterday. I never saw a lot of the draw cards or the tutors yesterday, so I was out of luck a lot.
I also end up a good percentage of the time always being one turn too late. Like one mana short (or a couple) to activate one of the combos and getting killed on the swing back. I get that it will happen, but I think that may make me want to drop down to try 3 Workshops and see how that goes.
I also would to see a little more game against people turning creatures sideways. I got knocked around a bit with this yesterday and had no answers quite a few times. I'm not quite sure what I want to do about this (if anything), but I'm going to try to look into it.
Shaman Ben last edited by
I built my list to play the way I play magic. If you ask me, I would tell you this deck is terrible. In fact, I always tell people this deck is terrible. It has served me well and continues to do so, and I will continue to play it. But if you are trying to tune a deck to consistently win at magic, there are probably much easier ways to do it. The pay off of this deck is that it can do powerful things with broken cards, but that does not change the fact that the core of the deck is 16 terrible cards that require specific synergy, that are easy to answer and stop, sometimes difficult to get into play, propped up by carving out the rest of the deck with a list of restricted cards, and then trying to glue it all together with the most awkward mana base the format has to offer. This deck is not for everyone. It is not always friendly to its pilot. It is not always forgiving to its mulligans. It is full of highs and lows. Some days I feel unstoppable, others I cannot win a game to save my life.
This is all fine by me. This all falls into how I enjoy casting magic cards. If this does not speak to you, if this leaves you frustrated or always a turn behind, its possible that you should try something else.
I just want to cast Demonic Consultation more times than anyone else at every event that I play.
@shaman-ben I appreciate the input, but I would not call it 16 bad cards. Leyline is great, Painter is decent, and the other two... well, they are there. heh.
Though, I'm not sure how I should take you telling me I should possibly try something else when I was just noting things from my last play through. Maybe just a misunderstanding. Painter is my all time favorite artifact, of course I want to play it.
Shaman Ben last edited by
@mdkubiak my statement was in general, not specific to your post. I encourage you to try things out in the deck. There is plenty of room. I have tried oath, dark depths, all sorts of weird stuff. Play with the mana. Try dark confidants. You definitely gotta find a way to make it work for you if you want to win.
But you also have to put your leylines in to play.
Thats probably the most important part of the deck.
@shaman-ben My apologies, I misread your statement. That's my fault. Of course I want to win, but I just want to start playing a list that really works for me. I find the deck a lot of fun and want to continue to play it. Just a little frustrated with myself for being on some awful losing streaks with the deck.
Yeah... those damn Leylines. Heh I wish I could say I only did that once (though only once yesterday).
One other note @Shaman-Ben. Demonic Consultation is an awesome card. Love it.
@jaco Went 3-1 (7-2) for 2nd place with your list yesterday, swapping Confluences for Cities and Pyroblasts for Red Blasts on a because-I-own-them basis.
Two of the four decks I played against were heavy control decks. Welder is an all star in these matchups. He costs 1 so they frequently forgo artifact hate to leave in Misstep. As long as you can get some artifact, any artifact, into play, you can get your win cons.
I also got to do my favorite 2CM welder move: Activate Grindstone, maintain priority, weld out Grindstone for Painter. My opponent had to think about that one for a bit to figure out when he was supposed to cast his answer.
I did run into a bit of trouble with Dack Fayden. Normally, I'd wait until I had the win in hand, castable, and activate-able. Against Landstill, this was tough game one as I got Strip/Wasted turns one, two, and three. Game two, he cast three Force of Will, two Misstep, and two Mana Drain.
Daretti never did anything other than eating countermagic. Nevertheless, I really like the idea of him in this deck. All three abilities are relevant. I figure if you can land him, they're probably out of countermagic, so you can ultimate to get back the win condition they countered.
A couple people both online and in meatspace and online expressed disbelief at my playing Bob. I was actually a big fan of him. By my quick count, the average CMC of the deck is 1.35 and fully 25 cards (42%) are CMC 0. Given the lack of "answers" played in this deck, the information revealed to the opponent is rarely relevant. I greatly appreciated the additional card draw. Incidentally, Bob also dealt a considerable amount of damage to my opponents, including being lethal when I instead cast and activated a combo kill. I really like having the additional out against Null Rods and other artifact hate.
On the subject of a less-hateable kill, I've usually added a Tinkerbot to 2CM. Multiple times during the day, I had Tinker in hand but nothing particularly useful to get. I think I'd add it here.
It seems like most people consider it a black and white choice between Welder and Draw 7s. I'm not so sure that's the case. I'm going to try a Wheel with Welder - besides drawing 7, it enables more Welder shenanigans.
@thecravenone Nice! I think there is a lot more room to play with this deck than people may think. I've had an idea floating around my head, could be atrocious, but I have had zero chances to try it out for months. Bleh.
@mdkubiak Sounds like you should post it here for us to ridicule!
@thecravenone Not until I get a chance to try it out.
This is what I've been tinkering with. I have no idea if this is any good (I have a suspicion it will fall flat on its face), but I never have gotten the chance to try it out.
*Ignore the sideboard for the most part. I've given little thought to it.
2 Card Monte (idea)
Spells (12)1 Abrade1 Tinker
Artifacts(16)1 Mox Jet1 Mox Ruby1 Sol Ring
Sideboard (15)1 Abrade1 Balance
The things you normally don't see in a 2 Card Monte list:
- Foundry Inspector
- Lodestone Golemn
In multiple match-ups, I lost because I was 1 mana short on certain turns. I kind of wondered, would an artifact cost reducer help in this deck like it does Ravager shops? Hard to say, but I felt and still feel it may be worth the try. This also adds the benefit of being an okay body (3/2). Which is something this deck can have trouble with, so buying a turn or two might be the difference between a win and a loss. Though, since this isn't really directly helping to pull off the combo, it very well could be a liability.
A great beat down body and with the main focus of this deck being artifacts, this can slow down an opponent. I think the body of the Lodestone helps tremendously and can impact a game. I'm quite less keen on this one and might be better as a Dark Confidant, Foundry Inspector, or maybe even a Tezzeret.
What I wanted was to get a little bit away from in the deck is being too all in on the combo, which is why I cut the draw 7 cards. The version I ran in the past, most likely due to my inexperience and misplays than the build (I trust @Shaman-Ben's deck building), I felt it fall on it's own face a lot and I was hoping to top deck. I wanted to shore up some of the weaknesses in that build, so I wanted to add a bit of a creature package (Lodestone Golemn, Foundry Inspector, Dark Confidant).
I flirted with unique 2 Card Monte ideas such things as: Phyrexian Revoker, Sphere of Resistance, Red Daretti, Thorn of Amethyst, Induced Amnesia, etc. (I'm sure there's more, but that's what I can think of right now). None of them felt right, except maybe, Induced Amnesia. I think Goblin Welder could be excellent and is probably the correct path for me to take, but I wanted to try an unique spin on the deck.
I'm not sure if changing to Pyroblast is correct for the deck. Mostly did it because I sold my Beta Pyroblasts. If I was running Dack Fayden, I would for sure play Pyroblast.
@nedleeds Played this 75 today with the following changes:
-3 City of Brass
+1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
+2 Mox Opal
I figured that while I really like Chromatic Lantern in the deck, even in multiples, it just combos so poorly with City of Brass. The only game that I was hurting for land, I kept no artifact mana and got double-wasted.
Misstep was sweet. Game 2 on the draw against Bargain Storm, I kept this and won by playing a control game until I found my combo pieces.
I definitely need to get used to playing control pieces again. I let a Recall sneak by forgetting I had the Phyrexian menace in my hand.
I was surprised at how little I missed the extra Helms. I just happened to have always had the one-of when I needed it. I'm still a bit concerned about having only one when one of the four tutors exiles at random.
On that note, my greatest 2CM play of all time is:
Real men Demonic Consultation for restricted cards! I'll name Time Vault!
Time Vault is the first card exiled
That's why you don't name restricted cards with Demonic Consultation!