Are you predicting that a big portion of the mentor players move to outcome?

If so, null rod seems like a very strong call.

If they move to something like gifts than it's less clear to me. Gifts does run more artifact mana than mentor, but it also runs drain and some higher cost spells where you might be better served by more low to the ground threats.

To me, I suspect that the primary blue kill now will be tinker BSC, which makes me what to have more metamorphs. They also double as extra thorns / spheres once the first one is resolved and can usually at least keep you on par with opposing creatures.

Not really sure how things shake up though.

My prediction was definitely toward Outcome, but Big Blue is also a possibility as you pointed out. That being said, tangle wire seems sort of mediocre there too, so I don't really know what you want in that event. The new Spyglass card is also one that is potentially interesting, peek + needle is a powerful opener and it slots in at two mana.

I've been on Null Rod Shops for a while now. Assuming Shops maintains solid chunk of the meta share and some people move onto Paradoxical, I'll stay on it. Here's my first take on 60 in a post-restriction world:

4 Revoker
4 Inspector
3 Chief of the Foundry
2 Metamorph
1 Lodestone
3 Wurmcoil

1 Chalice
1 Thorn
1 Trinisphere
2 Crucible*
3 Null Rod
4 Sphere
4 Tangle Wire
1 Mana Crypt
5 Moxen
1 Lotus

4 Workshop
4 Tomb
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Factory
1 Academy
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Ghost Quarter*

*These replaced 3 Thorns.

I know @Brass-Man was testing 1 shop decks over the weekend, just to see, and I was really impressed by 8 eldrazi in a list like that. Would that make sense for a null rod list (presumably with smaller artifact creatures).

I plan to sleeve up welder shops again. I figured tokens make stax bad and pyromancer tokens are more easily dealt with than mentor. Here is my current list.

Deck: Vintage Uba Shops.dec

Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard

4 Goblin Welder
4 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Lodestone Golem
1 Sundering Titan

1 Black Lotus
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
3 Null Rod
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trinisphere
4 Smokestack
3 Uba Mask

3 Ancient Tomb
3 Barbarian Ring
3 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Mishra's Workshop
3 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Wasteland

3 Tormod's Crypt
3 By Force
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

I think I will move 3 ensnaring bridge to the main and do -1 sundering titan, -1 smokestack, and -1 uba mask if the meta ends up changing to a lot more creature decks such as BUG.

@naixin Nice list. I am curious to know why you chose not to play tangle wire in it. I know it is not that good in a token-heavy meta but it is still very useful to earn you the time you need to setup the lock.

@albarkhane we only have room for so many lock pieces and I felt like tangle wire is the least useful for me at the time. However I can definitely see a case for tangle wire. I would probably cut some number of uba mask or smoke stacks for a couple. If I was playing normal stax, it would be easy as I wouldn't have slots for welders. However welder is one of my favorite cards so by playing it, I have to give up 1 lock piece.

I am not sure how useful this is going to be, but I did a first pass on something I am fooling around with. The old robots build updated with some new shit and foot to the floor thanks to the ban.

4 Arcbound Ravager
1 Lodestone Golem
4 Memnite
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Signal Pest
2 Steel Overseer

1 Black Lotus
2 Cranial Plating
3 Genesis Chamber
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
2 Skullclamp
3 Smuggler's Copter
1 Sol Ring
2 Sphere of Resistance
4 Tangle Wire
1 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Throne of the God-Pharaoh

4 Ancient Tomb
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland

2 Dismember
1 Karakas
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trinisphere
1 Umezawa's Jitte

I am not sure how well this will work out, but I think it has some promise.

@dice_box I very much want Tiny Robots to be decent again, after having played it for a while pre-LSG restriction (and a bit of time much less successfully, post-restriction).

I fired up an old list for the last daily last night and went 1-3, but it wasn't really very representative as 1) it was my first tournament in the MTGO interface, 2) I didn't have time to get newer cards, and 3) I got Vintage'd pretty hard two of my matches, irrespective of deck choice. However, the list still felt pretty okay. It was fun making people question their life choices when they chose not to Force of Will a Memnite and lose the game because of it. I believe that Walking Ballista and Foundry Inspector are necessary auto-includes though.

Looking forward to picking up new cards and playing around with them.


The plan I was building around was combing Smuggler's Copter and Throne. Copter let's me tap everything and Throne adds a ton of damage that way. Also the copter let's you ditch shit you don't need. But I would like to see if I can find space for other cards. Right now it's a first pass on just that idea alone. It might not work, but if it does its a very strong combo. Adding Foundry or Ballista would give more reach, I just don't know what I would cut other than Throne and Thopter.

@dice_box The main thing I worry about with that plan is that, historically, if you have a bunch of little dudes then you're probably winning already. I don't mean this as an attack, but as a curiosity: what makes Throne of the God-Pharaoh better than an effect that pumps your dudes for attacks, e.g. Chief of the Foundry or Steel Overseer?

I'm thinking that I'll be testing it regardless, but I'm looking for some groundwork for my assumptions.


I don't actually have a answer, just an idea. It may not work at all. Foundry is a good option, as are cards that buff the table. I don't really see a disadvantage with that plan.

The bonus on Throne to me would be the option to give a pseudo +2 power go everything on 2 mana. I guess that's not nothing. With a Copter you can just kill sometimes.

Don't we still have to max spheres? I think the 4 SoR and 1 Thorn is probably the baseline now along with Tanglewires, the list that are just trying to race popcorn look like Hurkylls blow outs to me without beaing fast enough to really race Outcome decks. I don't think there is anything wrong with going small, but I think we still have to max out disruption.

What does a Stax or Null Rod build look like right now? Ravager, PO and Oath all feel like something that gets shut out by Rod or Bridge.

With Thorn restricted, it seems like Energy Flux is in the range of being a castable card again. Playing shops against that card feels like a sideways-up-a-cliff uphill battle; aside from keeping them from casting it, is there a preferred way of dealing with it? Spine of Ish Sah is expensive but does the trick and synergizes with Ravager. Other options are Boompile (random), Ratchet Bomb, Nevinyrral's Disk, Eye of Doom, (these can be too slow, also weak to null rod effects), Culling Scales maybe? Hurts with moxen out, but we won't have the moxen for long anyway... Anyone have thoughts about this, maybe I'm overthinking hate for a specific sideboard card?

@vintage_rage I'm running two spines for now. I dont know how much we'll see of it, the Delver decks are big on Ancient Grudges, maybe landstill or Bomberman. the vault key decks prob dont want to run it. That being said its a fucking cock punch if it resolves. I don't know that Spine is great here, but its what I'm currently on. If this card ticks up we may need ot address this as a significant issue.

last edited by defector

The first significant data point of the new meta: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/vintage-challenge-2017-09-03. Shops looks pretty OK there, but much to think about:) More tomorrow I'm out for tonight:)

So beat it or join it: http://eemagic.com/allDecks.php. I guess the only big thing I see here is that I miss my Tangle Wires:) Why the meta hasn't generated easy/obvious answers to Precursor golem has me confused, other than that the creature suites look pretty strong.

@wintage There was a decent number of people who were playing Smash to Smithereens, which makes Precursor Golem potentially lethal for its caster if they have taken enough Ancient Tomb damage. It was enough reason to dissuade me from playing it.

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