August 28th B&R Poll



  • Saw some of these polls on Reddit, figured one could be interesting here to get a sense of how the TMD community feels.

    PS: Allowing people to select multiple options messes up the percentages on the poll because it uses percent of total votes rather than % of users. So it's best not to allow multiple choices, even though some people may really think it's necessary to unban or ban multiple cards.

    Unrestriction Poll: http://www.strawpoll.me/13729154

    Restriction Poll: http://www.strawpoll.me/13729091

    For unrestrictions, I couldn't think of many obvious candidates and I talked to a few people. Maybe cantrips could be unrestricted, but certainly not with Mentor legal. Same with arguments for Shops cards, Shops is too dominant right now for an unrestriction to be wise. Please discuss any candidates people have in mind and maybe in a few months I can include them in the next B&R Poll



  • Voted. Won't say what for yet since other people still need to vote.



  • Today is the day of polls, with the FB poll floating around today too.



  • And now there are two.
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  • 0_1503041344957_really, guys. really.jpg



  • @seksaybish Shops has the highest win rate but restricting Mentor or Misstep arguably weakens Shops.



  • @griselpuff said in August 28th B&R Poll:

    @seksaybish Shops has the highest win rate but not meta %. Also, restricting Mentor or Misstep arguably weakens Shops.

    I was trying to stay off TMD, but I have to respond to this.

    This is NOT an argument. This is so beyond false. Restricting Misstep won't do anything to hurt shops. The only thing that will hurt shops is restrictions to either Thorn, Sphere, Revoker, or Workshop itself.

    In what world do we live in where people think if Misstep is restricted, magically blue players will play Steel Sabotage or Annul or something else maindeck. I did 2x steel sabotage in RUG Delver back in 2012, but thats because it had value against the three different Time Vault decks in the format as well as Workshops. That just isn't the case anymore.

    Besides, I could maindeck 4 steel sabotages and If I don't open with Force of Will, I never get to cast them on the draw.



  • @13nova It's not just the fact that blue players will replace a dead card with a card that might be relevant. It's that the Misstep and Mentor decks push out the decks that are good against Shops (BUG Fish, Big Blue Control). Once those decks come back in larger numbers, they will help keep Shops more in check.

    Both effects compounding should definitely weaken Shops. It might still be the best deck, but it might not.



  • @griselpuff

    The last game I played against shops conviced me Shop is the only restrictable card.

    I open a hand on the draw of Ancedtral, Fragmentize, Fragmentize, Swords, Strand, Strand, Sapphire.

    He opens workshop, ruby, inspector, thorn. I open fatch(island) sapphire. He goes shop, revoke your sapphire, sphere, metamorph.

    My top 10% opener ruined by his slew of 4ofs, backed by workshop. I didnt get to cast a spell this game.

    One workshop player said I should have mulliganned my hand as it didnt do anything until turn 3. My response to that is he is fucking off his rocker, and anyone who doesnt see workshop as a problen is delusional as well.



  • @13nova said in August 28th B&R Poll:

    My response to that is he is fucking off his rocker, and anyone who doesnt see workshop as a problen is delusional as well.

    Well, that is certainly conducive to a healthy discussion.



  • @hrishi the same as saying I should mulligan my hand of ancestral, 2 lands, an accelerant, and 3 gas spells is a healthy discussion, sure.



  • @13nova I was referring to the second part of your statement. I happen to not see workshop as a problem. I suppose you're going to call me delusional?

    I don't think you should have mulligan'd that hand, but a single game isn't really enough to prove anything at all. I can cherry pick a single example and build a case to restrict anything. Sometimes you can do nothing wrong and still lose. If you can't accept such losses, I'm not sure what to say. The Vintage card pool allows such things to happen.

    I don't really see how constantly restricting card after card every single B&R cycle leads to anything good.


  • TMD Supporter

    Phyrexian Revoker is looking more and more like a little Lodestone Golem every day.



  • @13nova Why didn't you crack fetch and a.call in response to the first revoker/resistor?



  • @themonadnomad Because I had to pay 1 for the Mox through the first sphere.



  • @13nova Ah gotcha I missed that you were on the draw.



  • @hrishi said in August 28th B&R Poll:

    @13nova said in August 28th B&R Poll:

    My response to that is he is fucking off his rocker, and anyone who doesnt see workshop as a problen is delusional as well.

    Well, that is certainly conducive to a healthy discussion.

    Duder opened by completely dismissing a point he disagreed with. He's not here for discussion. He's here to yell into the void.

    @13nova said in August 28th B&R Poll:

    This is NOT an argument.

    I'll join him

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH



  • @griselpuff said in August 28th B&R Poll:

    @seksaybish Shops has the highest win rate but restricting Mentor or Misstep arguably weakens Shops.

    Fascinating argument. The same way restricting Gush and Gitaxian Probe affected Shops, right?

    0_1503074475152_metagame.png

    You don't nerf the #2 deck (Mentor) if you want to weaken #1 (Shops). These buckshot restrictions are a joke, and completely miss the mark.



  • Unrestrictions are much more interesting than restrictions, in my opinion.



  • @hrishi said in August 28th B&R Poll:

    I don't think you should have mulligan'd that hand, but a single game isn't really enough to prove anything at all. I can cherry pick a single example and build a case to restrict anything. Sometimes you can do nothing wrong and still lose. If you can't accept such losses, I'm not sure what to say. The Vintage card pool allows such things to happen.

    The issue isn't that these types of games happen. It's how often they happen. Shops has a 60+% MWP against the field, nearly 10% more than any other archetype. It is capable of these types of hands with significant consistency and that's problematic for a format that has a reputation for being a "turn 1 format" with too many non-interactive games. Just because the Vintage card pool allows such things to happen, doesn't mean people should blindly accept that. Otherwise, there's no reason to have a restricted list - you should be fine with your opponent having 4 Lotuses since that's what the Vintage card pool allows.

    I don't really see how constantly restricting card after card every single B&R cycle leads to anything good.

    Cards should be restricted when they become problems. It's a combination of Wizards of the Coast's pushing of Standard, and the increased visibility of vintage that has lead to this current spree.


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