@neo_altoid I agree with the "Only decks good players are playing".

I will 100% be on either Outcome and/or Mentor for Champs, and I know a lot of others that are taking that approach.

Even worse than that picture.
Workshop + Mentor in top 8: 100%
Workshop + Mentor against the field: 59%

@13nova said in Vintage Challenge - 8/19/17:

Workshop win percentage against the field? ~60%

Yup. "Healthy"

Mentor had essentially the same win percentage. Paradox had an even greater one.

@13nova said in Vintage Challenge - 8/19/17:

Workshop percentage in top 8: 50%
Workshop percentage in top 4: 75%

Oh that is troubling. I wonder what won it? Hey look, a deck running 27 mana sources and ZERO dead maindeck cards against Shops.

@cutlex Please stop with your posts heavily biased towards a workshop player point of view, it's not the first time you do it. And it only adds fuel to the fire...

The notion that the entire metagame should be focused only on workshops and interacting with it is absolutely ridiculous and is not indicative of a healthy format.
So if you are going to post, please try to put yourself in the shoes of non shops players. As most players have done in respect to workshops and the reason the deck was tolerated for years while the opposition almost always argued to restrict something that left shop players breathing room (IE before this cycle no one was talking about restricting Mishra's workshop because we wanted to preserve the deck you and other people enjoy in the format).

Not trying to start a flamming war just want to point out to you that there is another side than yours.

I like alot of the lists:
Remora SFM
Mentor using Island sanctuary
Grixis thieves
And Griselbrand Oath.
Niice 🙂 25% of the field.

@macdeath said in Vintage Challenge - 8/19/17:

@cutlex Please stop with your posts heavily biased towards a workshop player point of view, it's not the first time you do it. And it only adds fuel to the fire...

I make no apologies for my vociferous defense of the archetype while there is still serious discussion about restricting Mishra's Workshop. If you would like to discuss posting etiquette further, please PM me.

As far as the format being defined by a few strategies: that's the way it's always been. Shops and Dredge have been the fun police for over ten years at this point.

@neo_altoid said in Vintage Challenge - 8/19/17:

That's such a wide spread that there's just no way any deck beats all 3 consistently, though it's kind of a "there's an aggro deck, a combo deck, and a control deck" if you think about it, and that's not horrifically unhealthy.

What else can we hope for at this point? We have tempo, midrange, and combo that can all win tournaments, with a host of tier two strategies that are doing okay in non-MTGO vintage.

Thanks for compiling the data folks. I'm not going to make a bitchy wine post, but it sure feels like an easy thing to do these days. There really are some cool decks being played if you go through all the lists but they're so strongly tier two or three (at best) and they're barely being played by anyone. I don't know anymore, I really don't. I guess the only thing I can say for sure is that I'm just not as driven to play (or write about) this format as I was for the past two years.

Thanks again folks.

@islandswamp said in Vintage Challenge - 8/19/17:

I'm not going to make a bitchy wine post

I got your back, Joe.


@ten-ten Imagine the meta if Shops and Mentor weren't 4-ofs.

last edited by Aaron Patten

Off topic:
It would be close to disastrous if workshop were to be restricted alone. Nothing but C-c-combo everywhere.
If shops is too good and needs restriction, then ancient tomb should go first but I say it shouldn't be restricted at the moment.
The situation isn't so cut and dry anymore. Wotc have shaped the current meta and it can only get worse on the current path.
Sphere needs to go.
Mentor needs to go.
On the other hand, I wouldn't mind scrapping the current meta (B&R list) and starting from scratch. I believe Vintage is overdue for a rebirth.

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