August 28, 2017 Banned & Restricted Announcement

@joshuabrooks A watchlist is the worst thing we can have in a banlist. Duel Commander tried this for a while and it's terrible. It makes the cards in it non-tradable and has no benefits at all - if the card in the watchlist IS banned, then there's no reason to not have banned it before; if it ISN'T banned, then there's no reason to have put it there and create fear. Really, a watchlist is a bad idea.

@hierarchnoble this feels weird with the vintage trial on the Thursday...

@joshuabrooks said in August 28, 2017 Banned & Restricted Announcement:

My only request for future B/R is that they create a "watch list." They appear to want to preserve Mishra Workshop in Vintage, for now but it would be nice to see if they consider it a strong candidate for restriction. They didn't mention MW's unbalancing effect.

They did. It's -R Windfall.

People are missing this:

"Starting with this set, all planeswalkers past, present, and future will have the supertype legendary. They will also be subject to the "legend rule." The "planeswalker uniqueness rule" is going away. What does this mean? In short, everything that's true about legendary creatures will now be true about legendary planeswalkers

Under the new rules, if a player controls more than one legendary planeswalker with the same name, that player chooses one and puts the other into their owner's graveyard. This means that if you control Jace, Unraveler of Secrets and cast Jace, Cunning Castaway, both Jaces can exist under your control.

Next B&R Announcement: October 17, 2017

There is a possibility that EW will be a new, untested format.

Should have been Sphere and Misstep. Thorn is there fairer of the 2 spheres if you weren't going to can Shop.

Still just Missteps vs. Spheres. Still can't resolve a Noble Hierarch or DRS without packing my own Derpsteps. Misstep is still ~3.5 copies in 60% of the format. So awful.

Bargain is fine I guess but if you have 6 mana you deserve to do great things.

@nedleeds I feel they're right though. There's a big chance restricting Spheres wouldn't affect shops at all.

@thecravenone said in August 28, 2017 Banned & Restricted Announcement:

Next B&R Announcement: October 17, 2017

There is a possibility that EW will be a new, untested format.

Can't wait to see attendance. Maybe we can nosedive for the second consecutive year. Is Ixalan legal for champs? Maybe that will change something.

@fsecco said in August 28, 2017 Banned & Restricted Announcement:

@nedleeds I feel they're right though. There's a big chance restricting Spheres wouldn't affect shops at all.

Sphere is the better card, especially if they had restricted Chimpstep. It would mean Thorn go is garbage against DRS and Noble. But the decks playing DRS have to water their deck down with that cancerous piece of phyrexian shit and lose their edge on shops.

@nedleeds said in August 28, 2017 Banned & Restricted Announcement:

Is Ixalan legal for champs?

Yes. It releases September 29th.

@nedleeds It also makes ingot chewer not a good answer, which would have been a premier answer if Sphere were restricted instead. I honestly don't know which one is the better choice between them. It seems like a really interesting question.

last edited by garbageaggro

@nedleeds funny you say that now since most of your campaign specifically called out misstep and thorn (by name) instead of sphere 😛

Overall this is a pretty great announcement.

I feel like the DCI really engaged with the topic, put thought into its choices and clearly explained them.

Although I had advocated sphere over thorn, their logic that the problematic play pattern is lock piece plus quick threat and thorn is more enabling of this pattern is defendable.

From a personal perspective, I was very much hoping for misstep. As someone who spends a lot of time in casual brewer / deckbuilder mode, misstep kills more ideas and drafts than any other card. I thought that opening up discard and one drop acceleration like birds / drs and fastbond / exploration would have been two new deck building angles that would have been fun to explore.

My first two reactions:

I can't believe they didn't even mention Mental Misstep. That card was banned in every other format for the degenerative arms race it created, and the pressure it puts on Vintage one-drops is bad for the format IMO.

The next B&R announcement is scheduled for October 17th. Did they even look at their own calendar before announcing this date? Are they trying to keep people from attending Eternal Weekend for Vintage? The thought of potentially having to switch up my deck at literally the last minute (the B&R announcement goes into effect after the Vintage Trial but before Vintage Champs) sounds really really awful when I'm spending $1000+ (plane and hotel) to attend this event.

@vintage_rage i doubt they will have enough data collected to make a change for the October announcement, just because they'll want to give it some number of months to see how this change affects things and EW will be a good testing ground for them to see how things changed.

I'm sure someone has data or at least just the dates of all the previous B&Rs and we could find out an average amount of time between any change and another change.

Seems like Shops will just run over Jeskai Tempo now. Losing 3 Thorns is not that big of deal when they lost x Mentors. Young Pyro doesn't stand a chance, considering they replace 3 Thorns with Hangarback Walkers

Not having Thorns will hurt Shops chances of ever beating the new deck to beat: Gifts

last edited by Guest

I am not an expert but this sounds quite balanced choices. I would have enjoyed something about mental misstep too but maybe they thought it was enough change for now.
Both decks (mentor and shop) will need to go under deep changes now and that is a good news to me. I am curious to see where it will lead.

@jonhammack said in August 28, 2017 Banned & Restricted Announcement:

@nedleeds funny you say that now since most of your campaign specifically called out misstep and thorn (by name) instead of sphere 😛

Thorns vs. Missteps is all the format has been for a year. Hopefully that changes! If it's just Spheres vs. Missteps (or Defense Grid vs. Missteps) then who cares.

Unrestricted Bargain is a treat. I doubt that i would want to play 4 of them, but having 2 or even 3 + another cabal Ritual in TPS seems sweet. I need to test a new list as soon as i have time.

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