Yawgmoth's Storm



  • I've got a old but good deck to post. It's called Sabre/Exhume Bargain.

    The deck looks like this.
    Theres two versions, one that runs Voltaic Keys and Renounce and the other runs Radiant's Dragoons and Exhume.
    // 60 Maindeck
    // 10 Artifact
    3 Tooth of Ramos
    4 Grim Monolith
    3 Voltaic Key/Radiant's Dragoons

    // 8 Creature
    4 Academy Rector
    4 Skirge Familiar

    // 4 Enchantment
    4 Yawgmoth's Bargain

    // 9 Instant
    4 Dark Ritual
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    4 Renounce/Exhume

    // 22 Land
    6 Swamp
    4 Phyrexian Tower
    5 Plains
    4 Peat Bog
    3 Remote Farm

    // 7 Sorcery
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
    1 Imperial Seal
    4 Soul Feast

    // 15 Sideboard
    // 4 Creature
    SB: 4 Phyrexian Negator

    // 1 Enchantment
    SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red

    // 2 Instant
    SB: 2 Disenchant

    // 8 Sorcery
    SB: 1 Massacre
    SB: 4 Duress
    SB: 3 Perish



  • @ten-ten What happens when you have exactly 5 mana with grim tutor? You have to go get ancestral where DP gives you necro... What happens when you need to set up a ywill at less than 7 life or when tight on mana? You just concede with with your grim tutor in hand.

    It's a fallacy saying that it is easier to recover from a countered grim tutor, because the only way you are going off without casting a ritual before the grim tutor is if you already had BBB available (which means you were very likely to be able to cast petition without ritualling either).

    Grim tutor is only an equivalent to DP when your resources don't matter and they will matter more often than not (as evidenced in your scenario "Late game, full Graveyard, six mana on board, no resistance from opponent [and 7 or more life]." you could win with 100s of cards that are basically unplayable in this scenario). Grim tutor is only better when looking at setting up a next turn win or When facing graveyard hate, but it's still not fantastic there either.

    The whole point of Dark petition in the deck at the moment is to give you a consistent way to tutor for tendrils after resolving a bomb (which happens to involve bargain/necro a lot more nowadays) or to give you another route to victory (through will or Desire) when your bargain angle of attack is not possible, Grim tutor is lousy in the same role.



  • @macdeath I was, in all honesty, asking because I have not piloted storm with Dark petition since it's printing. I've either stuck with Ad Nauseam or Gifts storm decks.
    At a glance grim tutor seems better than DP but i needed answers from someone experienced with the card. Thank you.


  • TMD Supporter

    I've thought that Grim Tutor has its uses for turn 1 Tutor for Lotus. And obviously if you don't have Spell Mastery then Grim Tutor can be better.

    Dark Petition is much better otherwise.



  • @desolutionist agreed, basically when dark petition is bad grim tutor tends to be slightly better, but when dark petition is good grim tutor is a lot worse.

    @Ten-Ten you should probably give the card a try then, it's a lot better than it may appear. It's more versatile than ad nauseam and able to serve the same function by fetching for necropotence. I like to have at least one petition with gifts since its pretty good in a number of piles and bridges the gap between gifts and will if you already have it hand.
    The only real weakness of the card is that it's pretty bad against cards like Rest in Peace, but even then it's not totally dead (i've won a surprising amount of games by paying 5 mana to tutor for something like pack rat/bounce spell).

    Most blue decks are fighting combo with Leovold/Nthief, null rod and pyroblast at the moment. As a result Cabal ritual + Dark petition is pretty strongly positionned right now. It's also great to have YBargain and DPetition in the same deck since they work well together and each one of them is resilient to the hate that targets the other (Petition gets around Card draw hate and pithing needle effects, while bargain gets around gravehate and flusterstorm)



  • Hi! Is anyone playing yawgmoth's Storm nowdays? I have not seen a lot (actually i have played with Y Storm just 2 or 3 times while was on Dredge) of Bargains Deck during November, but now i am very intrested in learning and playing this cool deck. How it feels in current meta? Is a large amount of shops a big problem for storm to shine? And how difficult is deck to pilot perfectly?



  • @listlik I've been playing off and on since the unrestriction... and it's fine. It's soft to Leovold and Null Rod and anything like those. My opinion is that Paradoxical Storm is faster and more reliable.



  • @pugsuperstar said in Yawgmoth's Storm:

    @listlik I've been playing off and on since the unrestriction... and it's fine. It's soft to Leovold and Null Rod and anything like those. My opinion is that Paradoxical Storm is faster and more reliable.

    More like the other way around, Po is a lot softer to leovold and null rod. Ritual storm is faster, harder to hate on and more consistent at going off. Po is better vs shops due to having fow and more non storm win conditions and Po helps the deck compete on attrition with other blue decks. Rituals are a viable option when Blue decks plan is to fight combo with artifact hate. However the deck's real issue is that it struggles with shops since although shops have less prison elements the faster clock gives you less time to build up your resources to setup for a eot hurkyl's.



  • @macdeath Yeah the classic: waiting for 4 turns until you have enough mana to EOT Hurkyl's them and then untap to win is just not really possible anymore. Paradoxically with the restriction of more lock pieces the shops match up got harder. Before you had time to slowly find your way out of the prison and then have a single big turn to go off unhindered, alternatively you could try to go for an alternate win condition like pack rats. For the first one you just don't have the time now and the pack rat plan is pretty much useless against ballista (also shops will often just win the race). My solution was to put a Tinker package back into my deck and either sideboard in Blight steel or even play him main deck. This works pretty good for as long as they don't run multiple Metamorphs. Tinker for Robot works also really well against Leovold decks (which are horrible to fight, Leovold is just a stupid card)
    Did someone try just stalling the game instead of pushing a win through via Energy Flux or the like?

    This is my current List. I would kind of like to put the Tinker Package in the Maindeck and add a Memory Jar, but im just not sure what to cut at this moment. (i expect Jar to be pretty good with 3 Defense Grids in the Maindeck, but its also pretty shitty with 3 Bargains in your deck, not sure about it).
    Iam still not playing red, and i still like it to be honest, works out fine. I added a chrome mox for another mana source while going off with Bargain, or for getting to the Bargain mana in the first place.

    In the Sideboard i exchanged my Ravanous Traps for Leylines, since slowing down Dredge so they can only cast their 4/4s is usually enough to win, and this is pretty hard to deal with by Pitch Dredge Lists. I still have all my Hurkyl's/ Rebuild/Echoing Truth against Shops, but now also the Tinker Blightsteel Plan and a Fatal Push (really not sure about that one) A lot of the Shops hate also doubles against Null Rod and Leovold Decks. I added a surprise Flusterstorm for the Mirror or PO Lists, its cute, not sure about it though.

    What do you think? Would you try to cram Tinker/Robot/Jar in the Maindeck?



  • @aelien You need tinker bot maindeck to have a shot vs shops imo. Memory jar is garbage vs dack and null rod, you already have more than enough threats to be able to consistently go off. LED is mostly overkill and chrome mox is awful, I would change those for tinker bot. Also you need Library of Alexandria in the main deck, it's so good vs counterspell decks and occasionally great vs shops.



  • Rodrigo Togores suggested to me to try Collective Brutality.
    Ive been playing 2 for about 6 weeks now and I like it. I rarely side them out (only generally against Oath & Dredge).
    I think the card is very legit:

    • Doesnt get misstepped
    • Answers Revoker, Thalia, Notion Thief...
    • Life gained can be converted into cards drawn
    • Helps getting Threshold & Spell Mastery
    • Discards Opp & deals damages obviously

    I only 5-0ed a couple a times with the deck (byron1) but always breaks even (3-2 mini). Latest list has:

    • no LED, no Chrome, no Jar, no Mind's Desire
    • 13 lands (2 basics), no Library
    • Tinker/bot in main
    • Red for Wheel of Fortune & Empty the Warren in side

    Main thing Ive been trying to work out is whether I like Preodain or not. Running 2 at the moment. Does the deck need Sensei instead?

    The deck is very fun but still not sure its 100% there.



  • @tribet Interesting! Do you mind posting a list? I'm new to the archetype and haven't run across lists playing Brutality.



  • @stuart Here is last week 5-0 list where I trimmed 1 Duress & 1 Grid MD for Tinker/Bot instead

    I figured that Tinker can get the Grid if needed or a timely Lotus, ManaVault... and can help Threshold in some scenarios (that's also why I absolutely love Chain of Vapour in that deck). Also, having that 2nd & easy WinCon MD really gives me a few easy out G1 against certain matchups



  • @tribet Would you consider Night's Whisper in Preordain's slots, this card seems good in my limited testings.



  • @tribet I've been playing CB a lot in Bargain Storm in various paper tournaments recently. It's been really good. I've found I like 2x CB and 2-3x Duress in the mainboard.

    Also, I can't bring myself to cut Chrome Mox because sometimes you just need that extra black source when going off with Bargain, if you've already used your land drop. I still play LED too, but could be convinced to cut it.



  • This guy Guttershark is currently leading the League with 8 x 5-0s.

    White splash (no red) for Mentor MD. In the side: 2 Frag, 3 Serenity, 1 Balance, 1 Plains



  • @darkquarterer yeah I tried that split (and many others). But I'm still trying to work out the correct recipe xDuress/yBrutality/zDefense Grid/1 Hurkyl's/? Chain of vapour... That can easily add up to 9-10 cards if you''re not careful and I believe that is where I still need to do the most tuning/trimming.

    @jsakpc Haven't tried Night's Whisper because I do not believe 2cc cantrip is where I want to be. Feels wrong tapping out T2 to draw 2. I rather cast Preodain and follow up with Duress, Dark Ritual, etc... I'm now back on 4 Preordain as I feel consistency is what some of my versions might have been lacking. (I currently cut the 3rd colour to...)



  • We had 17 for Vintage this weekend, and I played Bargain Storm to 4-1 in the Swiss before losing in Top 4. My matchups were:

    • Round 1: 5C Humans: 2-1
    • Round 2: Team Leovold: 2-0
    • Round 3: UR Delver: 2-1
    • Round 4: Paradoxical Mentor: 0-2
    • Round 5: Punishing Oath: 2-0
    • Top 4: Inferno Oath: 0-2

    Deck was a blast and I was pretty happy with my list:

    1 Vamp
    4 Duress
    4 Dark Ritual
    3 Cabal Ritual
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Necro
    1 Yawg Will
    1 Tendrils
    2 Dark Petition
    3 Bargain

    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Ponder
    1 Probe
    3 Preordain
    1 Chain of Vapor
    1 Hurkyl's
    1 Time Walk
    1 Timetwister
    1 Mind's Desire

    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Petal
    1 LED
    1 Lotus
    5 Moxen
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Mana Vault
    3 Defense Grid

    1 Academy
    1 Library
    4 U Sea
    1 Swamp
    1 Island
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Delta

    2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
    1 Sadistic Sacrament
    3 Ravenous Trap
    1 Chain of Vapor
    2 Hurkyl's
    1 Tinker
    1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
    1 Tormod's
    1 Defense Grid
    1 Swamp
    1 Island

    Some thoughts:

    • Our last event had a lot of fair blue decks and Thorn decks, so I built with that in mind. Weirdly, this time the field was much more combo-oriented. As a result, I didn't end up needing the Bontus or extra Hurkyl's.
    • I overboarded for Dredge, which was dumb because no one played Dredge, and at previous events we've maxed out at 1-2 Dredge players.
    • Sadistic Sacrament overperformed against Oath in my last round of the swiss; I lived the dream of getting rid of all his non-Dack win cons.
    • Sphinx was amazing against both UR Delver and Hatebears. I'm not sure that it was better than Blightsteel woulda been, but it was certainly fun.
    • I don't think I'd change anything in the main. Manabase was solid, and I felt like I had a good mix of must-counters, cantrips, and answers.

    I'm usually a Thorn player, so it was really fun to change up my style and play some Storm!



  • @stuart
    I can't help but wonder if you would have been better positioned better vs PO mentor and oath with 1-2 tseize md.

    Do we really need LED? it feels win more a lot of the time, and only really shines on rare occasions. It increases variability quite a lot. Also Tinker bot should be in the main deck unless your meta has shops underrepresented. Tinker is also pretty good vs blue decks to clear a path for ywill or fetching a Defense grid.

    Saddistic sacrament has always been a little loose in my opinion, since you are usually winning the game when you have a bomb with the same cmc resolving. The BBB forces you to invest heavily into it. It also has gotten a lot worse without probe and with decks like oath or mentor which have diversified their win cons.

    How good has bontu's last reckonning been for you? It doesn't seem like it would be better than stuff like EE, Toxic deluge or even pack rat?

    3/4 slots should be all you need vs dredge. Especially since most versions have traded speed for resiliency to hate, which makes them softer to Ritual storm in general.

    Sphinx vs BSC is debatable although I feel like ravager makes lifelink in general a lot worse (as seen with the decline of Griselbrand in oath which it is partly responsible for). But Sphinx is definitely a house vs a deck like hatebears/humans.

    Since you made room for preordains, was surprised not to see Top. It is a lot more versatile and helps when you are forced to play the longer game. Also better bait for missteps.

    Curious to hear your thoughts on these matters.

    EDIT: Where is Library? Card is ridiculously good in the deck.



  • @macdeath

    @macdeath Thanks for the thorough reply! My thoughts, with the caveat that this was my first time playing Storm in an actual event (I’ve just been goldfishing and playing pickup games):

    • Thoughtseize used to be in my list, but I cut it for more Defense Grids. You’re right though, I could revisit it to help battle other combo.
    • I see what you’re saying about LED being win more, but it’s been great for me. I find it fills that “I need an extra black source!!!” role that people sometimes use Chrome Mox for, and it’s definitely helped me Tutor & Will much more effectively.
    • If I were to play MD Tinker, I feel like I’d want a Memory Jar in the deck. But yeah, Sphinx & BSC are strong enough that I’d consider it. Bare minimum, having another must-counter is good.
    • You’re probably right on Sacrament. It was just too fun of an effect for me to cut, but it wasn’t necessary. The time I used it, I probably could instead have just won the game.
    • I ran 2 Bontu’s after it bailed me out against Leovold during practice the week before, but it did nothing all day. EE is probably a better sweeper, though honestly I’m not sure we need one at all.
    • Agreed on Dredge hate. I’d stick with 3-4 pieces if I was playing online or in a big event, but for these tournaments, I could see going down to 2.
    • I played Top for a while, but it always felt too durdly. My list can grind decently as is, and I’ve been much happier with it since cutting Top.
    • I was playing Library! You’re absolutely right, the card is insane.

 

WAF/WHF

Looks like your connection to The Mana Drain was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.