@mranderson said in Yawgmoth's Storm:

@Aelien good questions and thank you for the reply. I played many years Storm Deck like Gush Tendrils, TPS (with Bob and less), Long or Doomsday, in Italy our meta is invaded by disruptive deck imprinted to denial. 14 is the right number of lands - in my head, obviously - to stabilize Storm. The great number of MUD push me to play a solid mana base: 2 island and 1 swamp to optimize the effect of fetchlands.
4 discard effects are the good number: not always we lose life, misstep is present in the meta and the fact that it's played on a Duress or on Thoughtseize is better than seen it on Ancestral Recall. The second discard effect is the best we can improve, specially against MUD or other creatures deck (all decks play a great number of those). This is also the reason why I play 2 Fatal Push in main deck. Hurkyl's doesn't resolve always all problems and I'm so scared from Team Leovold, maybe I can pass to 1 but for the moment I'll stay so.
DP is a good card but I don't like expensive spell: in this deck we have just 3 YB, Desire and the most control nature of my list doesn't allow to have always an exploding start. Grim Tutor is perfect for me because after threshold, all rituals become istant closing.
A most controlling shell, with 8 protections, allows us to play against all decks without risking to concede at an earlier date.
A question, playing my list which cards would you take away and which you suggest?

It's hard to take seriously someone who is advocating grim tutor over dark petition, and playing 2 creature removal slots md. Grim tutor is 2 mana and 6 life more expensive to set up a yawgmoth's will win and a lot worse at setting up necropotence or other bombs. It's also a pretty bad tutor to be using with yawgbargain. Creature removal seems really bad unless 90% of your metagame plays hatebears maindeck and even in that case you would want a boardwipe like massacre/Toxic deluge or a plan b like tinker blightsteel/pack rat.

Which is it easier to recover from, a countered Dark Petition or a countered Grim Tutor?
Late game, full Graveyard, six mana on board, no resistance from opponent. Does it matter which you have? DP or Grim tutor?

I've got a old but good deck to post. It's called Sabre/Exhume Bargain.

The deck looks like this.
Theres two versions, one that runs Voltaic Keys and Renounce and the other runs Radiant's Dragoons and Exhume.
// 60 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
3 Tooth of Ramos
4 Grim Monolith
3 Voltaic Key/Radiant's Dragoons

// 8 Creature
4 Academy Rector
4 Skirge Familiar

// 4 Enchantment
4 Yawgmoth's Bargain

// 9 Instant
4 Dark Ritual
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Renounce/Exhume

// 22 Land
6 Swamp
4 Phyrexian Tower
5 Plains
4 Peat Bog
3 Remote Farm

// 7 Sorcery
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Imperial Seal
4 Soul Feast

// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Creature
SB: 4 Phyrexian Negator

// 1 Enchantment
SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red

// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Disenchant

// 8 Sorcery
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 4 Duress
SB: 3 Perish

last edited by Shax

@ten-ten What happens when you have exactly 5 mana with grim tutor? You have to go get ancestral where DP gives you necro... What happens when you need to set up a ywill at less than 7 life or when tight on mana? You just concede with with your grim tutor in hand.

It's a fallacy saying that it is easier to recover from a countered grim tutor, because the only way you are going off without casting a ritual before the grim tutor is if you already had BBB available (which means you were very likely to be able to cast petition without ritualling either).

Grim tutor is only an equivalent to DP when your resources don't matter and they will matter more often than not (as evidenced in your scenario "Late game, full Graveyard, six mana on board, no resistance from opponent [and 7 or more life]." you could win with 100s of cards that are basically unplayable in this scenario). Grim tutor is only better when looking at setting up a next turn win or When facing graveyard hate, but it's still not fantastic there either.

The whole point of Dark petition in the deck at the moment is to give you a consistent way to tutor for tendrils after resolving a bomb (which happens to involve bargain/necro a lot more nowadays) or to give you another route to victory (through will or Desire) when your bargain angle of attack is not possible, Grim tutor is lousy in the same role.

last edited by Macdeath

@macdeath I was, in all honesty, asking because I have not piloted storm with Dark petition since it's printing. I've either stuck with Ad Nauseam or Gifts storm decks.
At a glance grim tutor seems better than DP but i needed answers from someone experienced with the card. Thank you.

I've thought that Grim Tutor has its uses for turn 1 Tutor for Lotus. And obviously if you don't have Spell Mastery then Grim Tutor can be better.

Dark Petition is much better otherwise.

last edited by desolutionist

@desolutionist agreed, basically when dark petition is bad grim tutor tends to be slightly better, but when dark petition is good grim tutor is a lot worse.

@Ten-Ten you should probably give the card a try then, it's a lot better than it may appear. It's more versatile than ad nauseam and able to serve the same function by fetching for necropotence. I like to have at least one petition with gifts since its pretty good in a number of piles and bridges the gap between gifts and will if you already have it hand.
The only real weakness of the card is that it's pretty bad against cards like Rest in Peace, but even then it's not totally dead (i've won a surprising amount of games by paying 5 mana to tutor for something like pack rat/bounce spell).

Most blue decks are fighting combo with Leovold/Nthief, null rod and pyroblast at the moment. As a result Cabal ritual + Dark petition is pretty strongly positionned right now. It's also great to have YBargain and DPetition in the same deck since they work well together and each one of them is resilient to the hate that targets the other (Petition gets around Card draw hate and pithing needle effects, while bargain gets around gravehate and flusterstorm)

last edited by Macdeath

Hi! Is anyone playing yawgmoth's Storm nowdays? I have not seen a lot (actually i have played with Y Storm just 2 or 3 times while was on Dredge) of Bargains Deck during November, but now i am very intrested in learning and playing this cool deck. How it feels in current meta? Is a large amount of shops a big problem for storm to shine? And how difficult is deck to pilot perfectly?

@listlik I've been playing off and on since the unrestriction... and it's fine. It's soft to Leovold and Null Rod and anything like those. My opinion is that Paradoxical Storm is faster and more reliable.

@pugsuperstar said in Yawgmoth's Storm:

@listlik I've been playing off and on since the unrestriction... and it's fine. It's soft to Leovold and Null Rod and anything like those. My opinion is that Paradoxical Storm is faster and more reliable.

More like the other way around, Po is a lot softer to leovold and null rod. Ritual storm is faster, harder to hate on and more consistent at going off. Po is better vs shops due to having fow and more non storm win conditions and Po helps the deck compete on attrition with other blue decks. Rituals are a viable option when Blue decks plan is to fight combo with artifact hate. However the deck's real issue is that it struggles with shops since although shops have less prison elements the faster clock gives you less time to build up your resources to setup for a eot hurkyl's.

@macdeath Yeah the classic: waiting for 4 turns until you have enough mana to EOT Hurkyl's them and then untap to win is just not really possible anymore. Paradoxically with the restriction of more lock pieces the shops match up got harder. Before you had time to slowly find your way out of the prison and then have a single big turn to go off unhindered, alternatively you could try to go for an alternate win condition like pack rats. For the first one you just don't have the time now and the pack rat plan is pretty much useless against ballista (also shops will often just win the race). My solution was to put a Tinker package back into my deck and either sideboard in Blight steel or even play him main deck. This works pretty good for as long as they don't run multiple Metamorphs. Tinker for Robot works also really well against Leovold decks (which are horrible to fight, Leovold is just a stupid card)
Did someone try just stalling the game instead of pushing a win through via Energy Flux or the like?

This is my current List. I would kind of like to put the Tinker Package in the Maindeck and add a Memory Jar, but im just not sure what to cut at this moment. (i expect Jar to be pretty good with 3 Defense Grids in the Maindeck, but its also pretty shitty with 3 Bargains in your deck, not sure about it).
Iam still not playing red, and i still like it to be honest, works out fine. I added a chrome mox for another mana source while going off with Bargain, or for getting to the Bargain mana in the first place.

In the Sideboard i exchanged my Ravanous Traps for Leylines, since slowing down Dredge so they can only cast their 4/4s is usually enough to win, and this is pretty hard to deal with by Pitch Dredge Lists. I still have all my Hurkyl's/ Rebuild/Echoing Truth against Shops, but now also the Tinker Blightsteel Plan and a Fatal Push (really not sure about that one) A lot of the Shops hate also doubles against Null Rod and Leovold Decks. I added a surprise Flusterstorm for the Mirror or PO Lists, its cute, not sure about it though.

What do you think? Would you try to cram Tinker/Robot/Jar in the Maindeck?

@aelien You need tinker bot maindeck to have a shot vs shops imo. Memory jar is garbage vs dack and null rod, you already have more than enough threats to be able to consistently go off. LED is mostly overkill and chrome mox is awful, I would change those for tinker bot. Also you need Library of Alexandria in the main deck, it's so good vs counterspell decks and occasionally great vs shops.

last edited by Macdeath

Rodrigo Togores suggested to me to try Collective Brutality.
Ive been playing 2 for about 6 weeks now and I like it. I rarely side them out (only generally against Oath & Dredge).
I think the card is very legit:

  • Doesnt get misstepped
  • Answers Revoker, Thalia, Notion Thief...
  • Life gained can be converted into cards drawn
  • Helps getting Threshold & Spell Mastery
  • Discards Opp & deals damages obviously

I only 5-0ed a couple a times with the deck (byron1) but always breaks even (3-2 mini). Latest list has:

  • no LED, no Chrome, no Jar, no Mind's Desire
  • 13 lands (2 basics), no Library
  • Tinker/bot in main
  • Red for Wheel of Fortune & Empty the Warren in side

Main thing Ive been trying to work out is whether I like Preodain or not. Running 2 at the moment. Does the deck need Sensei instead?

The deck is very fun but still not sure its 100% there.

last edited by tribet

@tribet Interesting! Do you mind posting a list? I'm new to the archetype and haven't run across lists playing Brutality.

@stuart Here is last week 5-0 list where I trimmed 1 Duress & 1 Grid MD for Tinker/Bot instead

I figured that Tinker can get the Grid if needed or a timely Lotus, ManaVault... and can help Threshold in some scenarios (that's also why I absolutely love Chain of Vapour in that deck). Also, having that 2nd & easy WinCon MD really gives me a few easy out G1 against certain matchups

last edited by tribet

@tribet Would you consider Night's Whisper in Preordain's slots, this card seems good in my limited testings.

@tribet I've been playing CB a lot in Bargain Storm in various paper tournaments recently. It's been really good. I've found I like 2x CB and 2-3x Duress in the mainboard.

Also, I can't bring myself to cut Chrome Mox because sometimes you just need that extra black source when going off with Bargain, if you've already used your land drop. I still play LED too, but could be convinced to cut it.

last edited by darkquarterer

This guy Guttershark is currently leading the League with 8 x 5-0s.

White splash (no red) for Mentor MD. In the side: 2 Frag, 3 Serenity, 1 Balance, 1 Plains

@darkquarterer yeah I tried that split (and many others). But I'm still trying to work out the correct recipe xDuress/yBrutality/zDefense Grid/1 Hurkyl's/? Chain of vapour... That can easily add up to 9-10 cards if you''re not careful and I believe that is where I still need to do the most tuning/trimming.

@jsakpc Haven't tried Night's Whisper because I do not believe 2cc cantrip is where I want to be. Feels wrong tapping out T2 to draw 2. I rather cast Preodain and follow up with Duress, Dark Ritual, etc... I'm now back on 4 Preordain as I feel consistency is what some of my versions might have been lacking. (I currently cut the 3rd colour to...)

last edited by tribet

We had 17 for Vintage this weekend, and I played Bargain Storm to 4-1 in the Swiss before losing in Top 4. My matchups were:

  • Round 1: 5C Humans: 2-1
  • Round 2: Team Leovold: 2-0
  • Round 3: UR Delver: 2-1
  • Round 4: Paradoxical Mentor: 0-2
  • Round 5: Punishing Oath: 2-0
  • Top 4: Inferno Oath: 0-2

Deck was a blast and I was pretty happy with my list:

1 Vamp
4 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
3 Cabal Ritual
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Necro
1 Yawg Will
1 Tendrils
2 Dark Petition
3 Bargain

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Probe
3 Preordain
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Mind's Desire

1 Mana Crypt
1 Petal
1 Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
3 Defense Grid

1 Academy
1 Library
4 U Sea
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Delta

2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Sadistic Sacrament
3 Ravenous Trap
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Hurkyl's
1 Tinker
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Tormod's
1 Defense Grid
1 Swamp
1 Island

Some thoughts:

  • Our last event had a lot of fair blue decks and Thorn decks, so I built with that in mind. Weirdly, this time the field was much more combo-oriented. As a result, I didn't end up needing the Bontus or extra Hurkyl's.
  • I overboarded for Dredge, which was dumb because no one played Dredge, and at previous events we've maxed out at 1-2 Dredge players.
  • Sadistic Sacrament overperformed against Oath in my last round of the swiss; I lived the dream of getting rid of all his non-Dack win cons.
  • Sphinx was amazing against both UR Delver and Hatebears. I'm not sure that it was better than Blightsteel woulda been, but it was certainly fun.
  • I don't think I'd change anything in the main. Manabase was solid, and I felt like I had a good mix of must-counters, cantrips, and answers.

I'm usually a Thorn player, so it was really fun to change up my style and play some Storm!

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