SMIP #70 The End of the Mentor Era



  • This hate bears deck from sept 2 was very cool.

    http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-vintage-constructed-league-2017-09-02

    It played 8 spirit guides on top of several artifact sources and had maindeck stony silences instead of null rods. The deck also plays 21 white sources so it probably always plays something serious on turn one and two.



  • @chubbyrain the powerless JacoDrazi strategy really only wants Thorn of Amethyst when Storm-based combo presence is high. With the rise of Paradoxical Outcome combo it was definitely a nice tool in the toolbox, but it can be worked around when deck building. Null Rod is by far the best disruption in the deck, followed by Chalice of the Void, so if you want to add more disruption you can play 1 Thorn and 3-4 Sphere of Resistance in the 75 (they don't all have to be main deck, which is important). Mindbreak Trap has been back in my sideboard for some time now (instead of Leyline of Sanctity) to help combat combo decks, but some number of Spheres can also be at your discretion.

    The far more devastating effect of the Thorn of Amethyst restriction is to White Eldrazi. Thorn + Thalia was the basis for that deck to begin with, so I think now is the time for those White Eldrazi decks to widely adopt Null Rod/Stony Silence, as well as fully integrate Sanctum Prelate in to their builds, and change their manabase slightly to accommodate the necessary change. I played a fair amount of Prelate in the end of 2016 and early 2017 (in both Eldrazi and Junk Hatebears decks), and it is as good as advertised, if you can cast it on time.

    If the DCI wanted to hit something from Workshop decks, but still leave other decks more playable, they should have hit Sphere of Resistance, as mentioned by Steve in the podcast. They followed this logic in Modern when banning Eye of Ugin, but leaving Eldrazi Temple unbanned (when Eldrazi Temple was the stronger card in all of the problematic Eldrazi decks). That precedent and logic left Modern format Eldrazi decks hampered and slowed, but still playable, as evident with current iterations in Modern of Bant Eldrazi and EldraziTron.

    With the past 9 months of Banned & Restricted List Announcements by the DCI, and the ensuing aftermath, the most generous pundit could only claim that 2017 has been a year of questionable DCI judgement at best, and capricious or incompetent judgement at worst.



  • @walking-dude said in SMIP #70 The End of the Mentor Era:

    This hate bears deck from sept 2 was very cool.

    http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-vintage-constructed-league-2017-09-02

    It played 8 spirit guides on top of several artifact sources and had maindeck stony silences instead of null rods. The deck also plays 21 white sources so it probably always plays something serious on turn one and two.

    That deck is 37 mana sources out of 60 cards. Good luck over a 7+ round event with that.



  • This was a good podcast as always, but a sad one. Mentor has fallen. And, frankly, I don't see any future except one where more and more of Workshop gets restricted until Workshop itself gets the axe. Your point about how restricting Thorn will, ironically, INCREASE the amount of Workshop in the meta as it absorbs Eldrazi seems spot-on.

    I just hope we get enough new toys to allow Workshop to survive what appears to be inevitable restriction of its namesake. :(


  • TMD Supporter

    @nedleeds said in SMIP #70 The End of the Mentor Era:

    That deck is 37 mana sources out of 60 cards. Good luck over a 7+ round event with that.

    Maybe there's a happy middle ground between the excessive mana of that list and the anti-synergies in this deck:

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/vintage-w-39580



  • @hierarchnoble said in SMIP #70 The End of the Mentor Era:

    @nedleeds said in SMIP #70 The End of the Mentor Era:

    That deck is 37 mana sources out of 60 cards. Good luck over a 7+ round event with that.

    Maybe there's a happy middle ground between the excessive mana of that list and the anti-synergies in this deck:

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/vintage-w-39580

    Not a fan of a deck that can't rod or stony and whose creature base is 3/4's X/1's. Also turning on 3.8 Mental Missteps in 55% of the format is wasted on Militant and Sol Ring. I'd rather just play Plows than a Savannah Lion that gets Missteped and at least have my Misstep bait be good against Shops. If I am building a W/x hate deck I'm either playing Missteps or ignoring them and am all in on not getting crushed by Shop, Mox, Ballista on 2. But I'm not building that deck because it won't do anything in a 7+ round event. None of the busted shop opening hands and none of the consistency of blue stew. Oh you also can't beat a 4/4 or a 5/5 trample for the budget bracket.


  • TMD Supporter

    You're preaching to the Fish choir, @nedleeds. The community needs more deckbuilders and less deck critics, so I presented another successful White Weenie list in hopes that someone can find the happy medium playable deck.



  • MKM just had one of their Vintage Events and the results are surprising.

    3 White Eldrazi (W, Powerless W, and W/r) decks made the top 8, though all three lost in the semifinals. The metagame included 6 White Eldrazi decks out of 34 players, which actually made it the most popular deck. The throughput was above one (37.5% of top 8 / 17.6% of metagame). While this is just one event and the metagame definitely differed from MTGO events, it certainly doesn't look like the Thorn restriction has killed the archetype. Ah well, time will tell. It will be interesting to see what adjustments the pilots made when the decklists get published.



  • @chubbyrain I don't think the archetype is dead at all, but it's not a great budget choice as Colorless Eldrazi was before the restriction. But I'm glad this decks are getting there too! The meta seems great!


  • TMD Supporter

    @chubbyrain Thanks for finding and sharing this! Those are all pretty spicy lists, especally the Geier Reach Sanitarium and Spirit of the Labyrinth soft lock in Oscar's list. Cavern of Souls is my favorite pillar, and I'm glad it hasn't crumbled.


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