@shaman-ben said in StoneBlade:

If I am going to play stoneforge mystic I want to find skullclamp.

I love skullclamp.

Think of all the things you can feed to it.

Think of all the cards you can draw.

Is any equipment really even close to as good as skullclamp?

I understand it does not fit this deck, but that does not mean there is not a deck for it.

Plus you can get it onto the battlefield without getting it Derpstepped.

Skullclamp could be played in a more Humans/Hatebears Stoneblade list (with Hierarchs, etc). But here it just sucks. I have no idea if Jitte is better that Fire and Ice in this deck. Being able to protect your Quellers from Bolts and Jaces with SoFaI is so cool...

last edited by fsecco

If you aren't generating X/1's from a recurring source (Bitterblossom for example) Clamp loses its luster.

@moorebrother1 I am probably just going to play 2 card monte on sunday, like always, but I have been proxying things up to loan out.

@nedleeds Skullclamp was fine with Genesis chamber, so I suppose it would be ok with young pyromancer. I enjoy that mentor is a terrible servant of skullclamp.

@neo_altoid said in StoneBlade:

1 yarn

Are you an itty bitty kitty?

@neo_altoid I got burned very badly by playing Spell Quellers at last years Vintage Champs. There were just too many Swords to Plowshare to make him worthwhile. I have been messing around with Nimble Obstructionist and it is a so-so card at best. I may just end up going back to the True-Name Nemesis because he deals with a lot of stuff and he can finish the game, especially when you put him on a Batterskull or Sword of Fire/Ice

5-0'd another league. Cut Sudden Shock and a Disenchant for a Fragmentize and EE out of the board. I think EE should be a Pithing Needle instead, but I'm not 100%.

@moorebrother1 Spell Queller is basically the worst card in the deck, but you have a hard time beating combo without it, and you do need a critical mass guys to wield weapons. If the default combo deck was Storm, I'd be all over V. Clique+Karakas, but the default is outcomes, and Clique doesn't really solve your problems. Nimble Obstructionist seems awful--we get no pressure if we cycle it, and no disruption if we cast it.

Really, what you have to realize about Spell Queller is that you need to just ram it at the first thing you can as a default (it took me an embarassingly long time to realize this). It's not a disaster if your Queller with Preordain under it dies, but it can be a disaster if we're relying on Spell Queller living to stop a Jace/Tinker/Will. I routinely cut 1 Queller in fair matchups.

@neo_altoid Hey, would you mind sharing some general tips on how to play this deck best? Mulliganing strategies, general approach to various match-ups etc.. Just embarrassed the deck in a league on my first try so I obviously did something very wrong : )

last edited by kistrand

Where is StoneBlade now? I am making a deck and I checked the net-deck sites and I see 2 visions of the deck.

The first from Eternal Weekend 2017
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Strip Mine
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
1 Monastery Mentor
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Spell Queller
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Abrade
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Gush
1 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Drain
3 Mental Misstep
1 Ponder
1 Pyroblast
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Time Walk
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Batterskull
1 Black Lotus
1 Dack Fayden
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

The new list is from a MTGO vintage league
1 Island
3 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Inkwell Leviathan
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Trinket Mage
1 Walking Ballista
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Balance
1 Brainstorm
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Fragmentize
4 Mental Misstep
2 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Batterskull
1 Black Lotus
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Opal
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Pithing Needle
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key

These lists show very different strategies and I am not sure which one I think is better. I would like to open some discussion here on which one is better in Vintage.

I purposely did not include sideboards because, sideboards are about the meta-game not the mission of the deck. I want to focus on the main board to understand how this deck wins, then sure up the weaknesses with the sideboard.

I took my previous build apart to play Legacy over Eternal Weekend and the deck in Legacy is just night and day compared to Vintage so I am a bit lost here. Opinions...

last edited by moorebrother1

I played the former list. To be 100% honest, it's basically playable almost as-is is in the current format--though I would cut Bolt and Abrade for Fragmentize and Disenchant, due to the high amount of Oath of Druids that's out there online. You need to realize that the deck is 90% just a more aggro version of the Jeskai deck--that's all. It's good, but it's not a new or exciting deck.

The latter deck--to be 100% honest--looks like a trainwreck which can win games by just doing something busted and hoping. This can easily 5-0 a league (especially if you play well and actually execute busted things)--but Tezzeret, AoB had been not great before, and I find it hard to believe that he's become that much better now.

@neo_altoid Thanks for that. I like play straight Blue/White. I'll use this as a guide.

@moorebrother1 Straight UW is pretty garbage, TBH. 0 access to Dack Fayden and Pyroblast are the real killers--you run into the Landstill problem of "if they resolve a planeswalker, I've lost." Yes, technically you could have pressure, and render their walker irrelevant but really...you've lost.

I think you could try to justify UWG (Sylvan Library+Batterskull is a wombo combo), or UWB (Ditto Bob+Batterskull, Thoughtsieze is a very good card), but straight UW has felt like it simply doesn't have the bonus draw engine you really want. Maybe you could try Remora? But that card is just not very reliable or good.

@neo_altoid You are correct. I put it together it looks like it should be good but it is not very strong. It takes too long to get there. I wanted to avoid Red, I may have to play it to give it an edge like you mentioned above. I'll play around with it.

I took a little break and I have decided to revive this deck once more. I have tried Damping Sphere and I have been disappointed. They hurt this deck and do not help it much.

I think this deck needs a low to ground strategy but it plays as a control deck. Any ideas on how to make this deck more aggro similar to a Young Pyromancer style of play.

This deck does not generate tokens and needs to play too much defense currently. Dack Fayden, Phyrexian Revoker, and the new breed of combo decks have put this deck in an odd place.

I am looking at current playable cards like JVP and Teferi and they are all SLOW. I could see a deck based on 1 drops but that deck feels like it would be on the defense against Blue.

Is there maybe an Erayo strategy like the Paradoxical decks play? Is there a better 3rd color? Maybe green instead of Red? Maybe no 3rd color? I'm open to ideas.

Damping Sphere isn't good. It's a prison piece in a deck that doesn't particularly want to prison.

There are a few real problems with the deck as constructed.

First, you're a little softer to Jeskai now, as everyone and their mother has maindeck ways to kill artifacts. You used be be able to say "my sword will survive if it's not Dack'd" with high certainty, and now you can't.

Second, Inferno Titan Oath is a bigger part of the metagame. Stoneblade can beat normal Griselbrand Oath, albeit with some difficulty. You can never in a million years beat Inferno Titan Oath. You just don't have the tools to do that efficiently, and you're too aggressive of a deck to simply play control until you find Mentor.

Third, the outcomes decks have homogenized into a cleaner variant than before. You used to be roughly favored against people trying to really durdle a lot with outcomes->Tendrils. Now you can just die to the secondary effect. You're still probably favored, but it's by less than before, and it's less clean than just casting Stony Silence.

Basically, the metagame changed. This deck attacked Shops decks and trash deck (White Hate/Merfolk/Humans/Other) players better than a lot of the rest of the metagame, while still being effective enough to get wins against Jeskai and Outcomes if you could outplay your opponent. Now that you don't have as much trash to take out (we're a ways away from Champs, for example, and the metagame has consolidated), and the good decks are better against you. So...you end up with a deck that's fundamentally a metagame call against a meta that no longer exists.

@neo_altoid I looked very closely at the Waterbury results and if you can create a decks that stands its ground against these low to the ground tokens decks then you have a very fair chance in the meta-game.

This is the build I have been working on
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Preordain
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
3 Swords to Plowshare
2 Batterskull
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 Containment Priest
1 Monastary Mentor
1 Flusterstorm
1 Mana Drain
1 Back to Basics
1 Jace, the Mindscruptor
1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Gush
1 Dig Through Time
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Black Lotus
5 Moxes
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
4 Island
1 Plains
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Strip Mine

I think playing low to the ground like the humans builds from Waterbury will help and a batterskull is no joke. You gain 4 life when you block and another 4 when you attack. The trick again token generators is to cut off the card draw. So, Mental Misstep and Flusterstorm become more important.

My theory on making this deck play better is to add black and some discard and removal that is a bit more flexible. I like Collective Brutality but it is bad against Shop so Thoughtseize may be better.
The main deck needs some artifact removal. The sideboard is heavy on graveyard hate with more removal spells.

I tried this with Black and I tried it with Red. Black is interesting, it gives you more of a toolbox feel and may be the right direction for the meta if you can figure out what tools you need like Stony Silence and other interesting cards to grab.

Red plays similar to Jeskai with Stoneforge Mystic instead of Young Pyromancer. I personally like the replacement but I am not sure if it offers anything better than the list from Waterbury. The advantage of a Batterskull is the lifelink + vigilance and it hurts Pyromancer in the exchange but you still need some crowd control.

The truth is that you need crowd control either way since Xerox vs Xerox does not offer much of an advantage. I do think Stoneforge has an edge in the Oath match up and does better against Shop from what I have seen so far. I can skip the Snapcaster and play the deck without much concern for the graveyard with more tutor like VT and DT. The Batterskull is a clock that must be dealt with and you have Mentor too.

The BUG match is also better for you since you are relying less on being a 3 color deck, which makes Dack Fayden a nice to have and not a must have.

The real question is why play this over Jeskai? I think this deck may have less variance with more tutor pushing a linear path to victory could be better with several rounds of game play.

I top 8d the challenge Saturday before last with this list:

There's also a list that was 9th in the challenge last Saturday maxing out on Spell Quellers and Mana Drain that looked interesting.

I think the main advantage you have over Jeskai is that SFM is better than Pyromancer against Shops, but with Shops becoming less popular online for whatever reason maybe it's not correct at the moment to play it.

I might try playing some sort of Standstill build with an SFM package in the side for matchups where you need a faster win condition.

  • 28
  • 10452