Bringing the Fight to 'Shops



  • @pugsuperstar sure. 16 lands in total. Only one basic island (it's a four-color deck after all). 8 fetches (important with Sylvan and JTMS to shuffle away unwanted cards) spread out across strand, delta, misty and tarn. 2 tundra, 2 volcanics, 2 trops. Strip mine and Library. All moxen (lotus of course) and sol ring. But I don't feel it's the mana base which this deck's strength against shops. Lifelink on Seeker of the way has helped many times, and and also getting token blockers with either Mentor or Pyromancer. Hydra is really hard for shops to beat if it gets to grow a bit. I also have 2 snapcasters which often help to ambush a revoker or foundry inspector. Post-sideboard, as I wrote, I bring in eight cards, 1 stp, 1 stony, 1 sorcerous, 3 grudges, 2 claims and take out dead cards in the matchup (pyroblasts, fluster, probe, missteps and usually one sylvan library).



  • @kistrand spyglass costing 2 is rough, and stony silence does more against your mana base than it does against them. I do like grudge as well as claim, but you are stretching your mana base making all that work.

    I had 1 of each basic, sol rong, and my sideboard plan literally just removed dead cards for more cards in the match up, so I didn't dilute what my deck was doing, just made it 10 times better in the matchup



  • @13nova Stony silence is probably the best card out there against workshops. The ability to hurt their mana base, ballista, revoker and walker is hard to understate.


  • TMD Supporter

    @John-Cox Man, I disagree hard about that. Stony silence makes your mana less explosive, and still lets them make big monsters. Yes in Delver it might be a good card in the matchup, but "best card against workshops", I think in general terms you are looking for things that can devastate their boards.

    In the abstract, I think the most powerful card against shops is probably something like Pulverize, but that requires a pretty dedicated deck building effort to be plausible. In most decks cards like By Force and Meltdown or Hurkyl's Recall if you can win during the window it creates, seem way better than stony silence to me.



  • @john-cox said in Bringing the Fight to 'Shops:

    @13nova Stony silence is probably the best card out there against workshops. The ability to hurt their mana base, ballista, revoker and walker is hard to understate.

    Slowing down there manabase does nothing when they run 4x Inspector, only have 4 Spheres that actually impact them, and still overrun you with 2/2s.

    Pithing Needle is much better in that it can stop their Ravager, Ballista, or more importantly a lot of times, Wasteland and Ballista. It can stop the Steel Overseer if necessary, as well. To give you an idea, I cut Stony Silence entirely from my Jeskai list, instead running Sol Ring.



  • @13nova Thanks for the reply, I truly appreciate that experienced players take the time to give advice to us mortals : ) . I use spyglass to battle deathrites too and wanted to avoid missteps and thus opted for it over pithing needle. But I agree that costing two is less ideal against shops. I've also thought about stony silence and especially the risk of ruining my own mana development. I guess, in my limited and non-competitive experience, silence has been both good and meh against shops. Sometimes it has both nullified their mana (if they miss on multiple Mishra's workshops/sol lands) and preemptively shut down ballistas/ravagers. Ballistas are especially troublesome because Sylvan tends to get you rather low on life. Other times, though, I did not even want to cast it. Silence also plays a double role in my sideboard and the main target there is Paradoxical outcome decks. But I think you are right that it is not the best solution against shops.



  • I have enjoyed this discussion about fighting 'Shops and certainly have a couple of great takeaways from it. I have updated my mana base to the following:

    In addition to this, I have cut Stony Silence from the main (it is in the sideboard for the time being) and a Preordain from the main. I have swapped the Abrade for a Fragmentize.



  • @pugsuperstar said in Bringing the Fight to 'Shops:

    I have enjoyed this discussion about fighting 'Shops and certainly have a couple of great takeaways from it. I have updated my mana base to the following:

    In addition to this, I have cut Stony Silence from the main (it is in the sideboard for the time being) and a Preordain from the main. I have swapped the Abrade for a Fragmentize.

    Only change I'd make to your manabase is making the Deltas into Tarns, and the Strip Mine to a Mountain.

    I felt that every time I stripped a Workshop, I fell further behind, and while it does feel great to get a Library, the odds of you being at parity by that point are slip.

    Keep Abrade. Fragmentize doesn't kill Leovold and Deathrite Shaman, and it also doesn't kill the original precursor golem, which can be huge.



  • @13nova I agreed with most of your points. I use Polluted Delta as I do not own Scalding Tarns. This is why I swapped Abrade for Fragmentize.

    I will consider changing out the Strip Mine for another basic once I buy some Scalding Tarns.


  • Administrators

    If we're going to get REAL pedantic about this ... it should be 1 Polluted Delta, 1 Scalding Tarn, 1 Misty Rainforest because of the possible appearance of Spyglass/Pithing Needle :D

    But if you end up running Mountain in the board the on-color fetches are probably a lot better!


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