The Curious Case of Mishra's Workshop
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@hierarchnoble Except I do. I also play oath, sans blue....which most vintage players would consider sacrilege and impossible.
Aaron Patten last edited by
@thewhitedragon69 That sounds awesome. Would you be willing to share a list sometime?
@aaron-patten PMed you
@thewhitedragon69 Typical builds for Shops anymore include 4 Ancient Tombs. I would be extremely weary of playing City of Traitors. My assumption Shops would go to more wasteland type of affects (as you mentioned) or back to Eldrazi lands.
@mdkubiak The city of traitors could work with more crucibles main....which also compliments the idea of more strip lands. 1 shop, 4 tomb, one city, and 9 strip-waste-ghost with 3-4 crucibles main could still be scary - especially with 9 sphere and 4 chalice back in the mix.
Topical_Island last edited by
@thewhitedragon69 Dude. Very interested. You should post about it over on the Oath thread.
fsecco last edited by
@thewhitedragon69 that barely works in Legacy though...
@nedleeds (Sean I assume), I'm cross posting this because I'm not sure which platform (FB, EC, TMD) you are the most responsive.
There is a key point which I'm not sure you tackle properly in this article. To my mind, the increase in the average number of Missteps was directly related to the restriction of Chalice of the Void in September 2015.
Blue decks simply got greedier, much lower on the curve and then everybody got stuck playing 4 MM as a consequence of Chalice's restriction.
Before Chalice's restriction, people were much more conscious about spreading their CMC across the curve. Moreover, cards like Spell Snare, Spell Pierce and Hurkyl's were no brainer main deck back then as it was the best answer to un-restricted Chalice (and versatile/good against the rest of the field).
In a field full of Chalices, MM made absolutely no sense. That's the key point.
Last, in a field without Chalice, I think people felt safe knowing that they could rely on 4MM if needed to keep in check the Ritual decks. I think that when Dark Petition + Cabal Therapy + Probe decks started popping out. Then Xerox really took over the format but by then 4MM was already everywhere. It all started when Chalice got restricted.
@thewhitedragon69 echoing the others, I love unique Oath lists.
Workshop is busted. Superbusted.
but if you play it, you dont play the over iperpowered cards.
That s the point of T1. Strong cards define the meta and the archetipes.
So the point is not how much strong this card is, but how taxing is the deck it enables.
Remember the Trini era ? To survive, blue deck had 5 wastes, extra mana, etc.... Life was miserabile.
Now, is this Ravager Shop so warping? I dont know, but we should give the meta the time to adapt and return to fight brown like we used to in the past .
History of Vintage is kinda like this :
blue fights brown
blue prevails and start to fight other blue
Something got restricted
Return to point one.
At some point trini is printed.
then blue fights brown.
Life is miserable for blue
something brown got restricted
I recently played a League round full of Blue Moon, Oath, and BUG decks. They did just fine against shops.
Workshop is the 2nd best magic card printed in the history of magic. It deserves to be restricted. The free pass bullshit can stop any day now.
Topical_Island last edited by
@bobbyvictory Good analysis. I hope it's cited in the restriction explanation... also, 100th thread post. Boom. I win. Pay me my tote-bag.
@topical_island Trouble is, if I play a vintage tourney, it's the deck I would play. My fear is that if people test it, and it plays for them as well as it does for me, people will either net deck it or learn the angles to hate against it, and I'll get beat at the tourney on the back of facing mirrors or hate. Maybe not a totally rational fear, but it's happened to me before with a tidespout/remora oath list I ran way back in the day.
The other thing I would dislike, which has happened, is that someone sees it, likes it, wins a tourney with it, then claims credit and it becomes "X-name's oath" and X-name is known as the originator of blueless oath. I hate that shit. I'm also an amateur author outside of my regular work/magic life and that would feel like me writing a novel, someone else slapping their name on it, and doing a book reading tour on my work.
Case in point, whose name do you think of when you think of Workshop/Dark Depths?
Having a deck named after you isn't all it's cracked up to be, @Thewhitedragon69.
@ilpeggiore I agree with this, except at some point dredge poked its head in there...and then really great grave hate got printed. I don't understand why people are so cool with Vintage being predominantly blue deck vs. brown deck vs dredge deck. There are so many other options, and lots of them get choked out because of workshop. I heard someone once say they wished vintage was all blue mirrors because it's the most skilled deck to play. I can't get on board with that, but to each their own, I guess.
@hierarchnoble It's not. Neither is having your name on a book jacket. What's worse though is having someone ELSE'S name on the book jacket of the book you wrote. That shit just feels bad and like your effort was wasted.
I d like to see how many slots are needed to have a fair/positive matchup against shops.
Right now a 3x bolt+3 energy flux seems enought on paper.
This version of shop is explosive but seems frail, being composed of aggressive artifact Creatures, the most killable permanent ever
nedleeds last edited by
In our testing it felt like the paucity of spheres was pretty exploitable. Especially if you were on the play. The test gauntlet was URg Delver with null rods, abrade and grudge ... still with some duds main like 3 x MM, 1 x Fluster, and UGb Fish again still with 3-4 dead cards. We were winning a reasonable amount of game ones and being reasonable against blue stew Jeskai. Losing games where blue stew could win a Misstep war over a token maker.
Game 2 and 3 where the X for 1's like Grudge, Flux, By Force and typically an extra basic came in didn't feel bad. Alot of playing Smokestack for me was playing aggro shops and getting smashed on the draw by Deathrite go or Thoughtseize go into spot removal and endless wastelands.