@jimtosetti do you consider the black splash worth it for just demonic tutor?
Whats your opinion on yawgmoths will?
i think it has always been a powerful card in oath strategies, so whats your reason not to run it?
Well, I will first try to answer the question as simply as possible. I win fewer games without Demonic Tutor, and I win fewer games with Yawgmoth's Will when Sphere effects are more popular. I was using Yawgmoth's Will right before Karn decks really took off and then I cut it.
Sometimes the black splash can be eliminated. Maybe this is one of them. If I were to cut the Demonic Tutor right now it would be an ancient Grudge. The options that Demonic Tutor provides can be very rewarding. I will often Demonic Tutor for Force of Will, Wasteland, and Jace.
If you want to play with Yawgmoth's Will you need to look at the rest of your deck. Some of the best lines include Black Lotus, Oath of Druids, Time Walk, and Ancestral Recall. In general, recasting more draw spells for value in the absence of Oath of Druids is the reason to play Yawgmoth's Will. Right now Narset is fairly common, so Oath has been using fewer draw spells, making the card tougher to include.
@jimtosetti Is Preordain #3 better than a Ponder? Where are you on Mission Briefing after a few leagues? Thoughts on Spell Piece to combat PWs and adding more grudges main?
Ponder can be good provided you get some sequence of cards that can be effective in that particular game. It can be a gamble in the early game because you might not know what you need to win yet. Preordain is consistent at finding lands and the Oath of Druids. Ponder is better in decks that use more fetch lands because you can shuffle the extra cards away. Ponder is also better in more dedicated combo decks.
As far as Mission Briefing and a few leagues goes, its more like Mission Briefing after hundreds of leagues. Mission Briefing has a similar function to Yawgmoth's Will. It is harder to cast when there are more sphere effects in the meta.
I started to test Daze to combat Planeswalkers and counter magic, but my experience is that you still lose to turn one Karn when they are on the play. I have some ideas to test when we can use the Modern Horizons cards the might help Oath in tough situations.
Ancient Grudge is very good against artifact based decks and very poor against Xerox decks. You can probably go two ways with the deck. A general strategy for all matches game one, or a main deck that is focused towards particular matches that sides into the other matches in a strong way. However, players have been successful in relevant numbers using multiple main deck Ancient Grudges.
My experience with Spell Pierce has never been good with this deck, but that was when Xerox was a major competitor. I've thought about trying out one Spell Pierce, so maybe I will try it tonight.
I know that myself and many other people are becoming very unenthused with losing to turn one Karn. At this point it highly probably we are making donations to WOTC when we join leagues.
If I figure out anything significant with the Modern Horizons cards I will post the deck lists and card discussion here. My theory with Magic is to test anything that enters you mind as a good idea. You will never find out if they are good ideas if you never test them. My Twitch account name is the same as here, jimtosetti. I play Oath fairly often. Feel free to come deck build with us there. I'm on most days starting anywhere from 5pm -7pm central time.
I'm unsure, i have a generic control pile of the regular restricted draw spells and stuff. Playing 1x Griselbrand, 1x Niv Mizzet Parun, and 1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind/1x Tinker.
I've seen Wrenn and Six show up but i'm not sure how great that could be - haven't tried it.
Looking at mtgop8, i do see less cages i think. Just in shops right now, it appears.
I've picked up a set of Force of Vigors to combat the Mystic Forge Karn Lattice bs, but i never got around to putting them into the deck before they were restricted. Now i'm wondering if a couple would still be good, however i don't know what the green count would have to look like.
But i'm down to shop. I started a side gig buying/selling cards and i haven't had so much time to just aimlessly look at vintage content for 6 hours a week, so i've decided i'm just playing Oath no matter what at EW. I'm so unsure of the new shaping up right now.
An extra Pyroblast, Nature's Claim, and a Lightning Bolt. Although Bolt may be sketch, but i figured it pops planeswalkers at a similar rate as Pyro, pops all of Shops creatures at about the same rate as Nature's Claim, as well as Arcanist, Leo, Confidant, C Priest, and Lavinia.
But i also haven't started with any 'stock' list so saying those replaced my missteps probably does not mean that much.
New events posted up on MTGTop 8 gives me some insight to how much i'd like to have Nature's Claim in the main, which is very little in this meta. Shops has declined some.
I thought Abrade could make a comeback for me. I've been trying it but i'm just wondering if i should try playing a Veil of Summer main or something else with a little bit of spice. I'm never happy with it really but it's such a good card.
Spell Pierce, is it fine in Oath? We don't mind going for a long game if we keep the opponent's threats down, but the longer it goes the more likely an opponent can have 2 mana. Miser Mana Drain fine?
3 Pyro in the main is too much or just fine? It doesn't seem too too excessive, but maybe the 4th in the SB is? Jeskai is generally playing 2 or 3, seems to a bit over half the lists are on 3. A recent Oath deck in the league on the 15th took 2nd and was straight up playing 4 in the main (they were also playing 3 abrade and 4 narset)
What's the role of Gush nowadays? I see no one playing it, but i feel like it used to be.
What's the role of black to play DT and Vamp and Will? This is another thing i've seen people come off of to a degree, from the last 2 months about half of the Oath decks were including black still but i've seen a RUG oriented approach.
16 Lands and 5 mana rocks? I had 17 lands and it was definitely causing flood.
My singleton Mana Confluence? I essentially have this instead of a basic Island since i'm playing 4 colors. The life loss can't exactly be ignored but i've really never been disappointed in drawing it. The larger downside may be the lack of a basic.
I really like lightning bolt, and if anything i'd play 2 in the main before i cut the first. That's not crazy is it? Plus one in the side. It's just so good against a fair amount of creatures and Narset.
I would love to try a misdirection again. Veil of Summer seems a bit like it fills a similar role in countering Decay/Trophy, but Misdirection is free and reverses the removal rather than just counter, or snag opposing Ancestrals. Misdirection also snags Fragmentize unlike Veil.
My list, i don't know how to format.
The Monsters Three:
1x Niv Mizzet Parun
1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
4x Forbidden Orchard
1x Library of Alexandria
1x Mana Confluence
2x Flooded Strand
3x Polluted Delta
1x Underground Sea
2x Volcanic Island
2x Tropical Island
More Mana (5):
1x Treasure Cruise
1x Dig Through Time
1x Gitaxian Probe
4x Force of Will
1x Mental Misstep
1x Spell Pierce
1x Lightning Bolt
1x Ancient Grudge
2x Dack Fayden
2x Narset, Parter of Veils
Oaths, Tutors, and other Vintage (9):
4x Oath of Druids
1x Time Walk
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will
Any thoughts or recommendations are appreciated!
I've played in Oath, Paradoxical Oath, and builds of Oath and Paradoxical that transform. It's a great card! And you know what, there's kind of less Dack Fayden right now so it could be really good. They dodge virtually the same amount of removal, too. I like the lifegain though, and not dying on crackback to dude decks (shops and survival). Maye it could make a comeback, but on the other hand i've cast Sphinx a few times in the last couple dozen games.