[Free Article] The Little Juggernaut That Couldn't



  • I look at the meaning of Lodestone Golem's's restriction both in terms of Vintage policy and metagame

    http://www.eternalcentral.com/the-little-juggernaut-that-couldnt/



  • Another great addition to the writing coming out about Lodestone Golem and restriction policy. I like that you looked at differences between the online and offline metagames and brought up the VSL specifically. Your point about Auriok Salvagers (and Worldgorger Dragon and similar infinite combos) is also interesting. I'm not sure where that "diplomatic immunity" ends up, but the issue is a possibility if the online metagame drives decisions. Thanks for writing!



  • It's cute that people think Salvagers, a card relegated to the junk bin along with Dark Confidant, would somehow defy statistics of Workshops on MTGO. Dragon, an equally unplayable deck literally does not matter.

    While BK's list from Champs is fantastic in its own merit it has seen very little play since the September B&R update.

    This is another fine example of whining and fear mongering masquerading as unbaised quality content; lacking any real statistically relevant content and analysis.


  • TMD Supporter

    @socialite Shuhei Nakamura just won the 2016 Asia Vintage Champs with Salvagers Oath



  • @SamuelA

    22 player event, cool I guess.



  • @socialite The Asian Vintage Champs had requirements to get in, which is why it was filled with former World Vintage Champs and winners of large Asian Vintage tournaments. That's also why it was a relatively small field.



  • @ajfirecracker

    It's laughable that people complain about Menendian's very reasonable Q1 sample size yet I'm supposed to care about an invite only 22 man meta single event. For what it's worth I don't even know why we are having this discussion; I did nothing but compliment the deck however, citing an extremely small sample size to try and validate a single card that has dropped off remarkably since 2012 is loose at best.



  • @socialite said:

    @ajfirecracker

    It's laughable that people complain about Menendian's very reasonable Q1 sample size yet I'm supposed to care about an invite only 22 man meta single event. For what it's worth I don't even know why we are having this discussion; I did nothing but compliment the deck however, citing an extremely small sample size to try and validate a single card that has dropped off remarkably since 2012 is loose at best.

    According to TCDecks there are over 160 hits for "Auriok Salvagers" since 2012. Granted, I started playing Vintage after that, but if that's a 'remarkable dropoff', I'm sorry I missed it. The mirror was a skill-intensive durdlefest of awesomeness based on the many matches I played against Justin Kohler and others in the NE.

    Regarding your other points, I for one am not dismissing the online data - I think it's useful and have contributed to Steve's dataset myself. The reason I have not been playing much Dragon or Bomberman recently is due to the infeasibility of these decks on MTGO. I play a decent amount of MTGO and paper Vintage and I tend to spend time on decks that I can play on both media. Both combos are certainly viable and can place in major events, such as Vintage Champs, the prelim to Vintage Champs (JR Goldberg took Dragon to a top 8 out of over 100), or the smaller Asian Championship. Discounting these decks because of the online metagame, or the online metagame because of the absence of these decks, are equally foolish in my opinion.



  • @ChubbyRain It was huge for a while, after Bomberman faded out - not so much, that was my point.

    I played you at champs in round 8 - you were on Dragon. ;)

    I also wouldn't call their dismissal foolish, there's just far superior options regardless of meta (opinion, but their lack of wide spread adoption speaks volumes).



  • @socialite I don't know why nobody has mentioned that you aren't just dismissing the 1st place deck of the 22 player Asian Vintage Championship, you're also dismissing the 1st place deck of the 450ish player Vintage World Championship. It seems silly to consider Auriok Salvagers negligible. Your point stands better for Worldgorger Dragon, which hasn't seen very serious play since a decade ago.



  • @DeaTh-ShiNoBi It would be great if you would actually read the thread before posting.

    I did nothing to dismiss the deck at all (in fact I gave it credit); I just questioned the validity of Auriok Salvagers at the CURRENT time and it's lack of meaty meta presence. It's not an arguable point that the card has seen less play since Bomberman fell out of favor in the meta - it's a fact.

    I'm not ready to delve into another pointless argument, ciao.



  • @socialite Man, I got no dog in this fight, but you really seem to be on maximum oversnark...

    Loved the article. Hope you revisit the meta game in a few months and find out how your predictions played out!



  • @socialite said:

    @ChubbyRain It was huge for a while, after Bomberman faded out - not so much, that was my point.

    I played you at champs in round 8 - you were on Dragon. ;)

    I also wouldn't call their dismissal foolish, there's just far superior options regardless of meta (opinion, but their lack of wide spread adoption speaks volumes).

    In 2016 though, there are at least 6 hits for Salvagers on TCDecks. That's not including the Asian Championships or a 32-person event in PA in which I came in second with Kelly Oath. The lack of widespread play has much more to do IMO with other factors (difficulty of play, inability to play on MTGO, player preference, metagame considerations) than 'far superior options regardless of meta'. Obviously Nakamura and Brian Kelly, felt so...

    Also, I remember you. And I don't recommend playing Dragon for 17 rounds during Eternal Weekend :p


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