Induced Amnesia


  • TMD Supporter

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    This seems pretty good



  • I think Memory Jar is the most obvious comparison.

    Neat thing this does is "stack" - Cast multiples of these in one turn then destroy/bounce them all.

    EG, casting two of these from a full hand: 7 cards in hand. Cast Induced Amnesia, leaving 6 in hand. Exile those 6 and draw 6. Cast Induced Amnesia, leaving 5 in hand (6 drawn minus the Amnesia we're casting). Exile those 5 and draw 5. Destroy Induced Amnesias (leaving 4 cards in hand), get back the 5+6 you drew for a total of +9 cards.


  • TMD Supporter

    I wonder if this is enough to bring back Abjure, Perilous Research, and Hatching Plans.

    You can’t actually
    Bounce it. It has to go to the GY. But I wonder if you can just recast it multiple times and then destroy it



  • @desolutionist said in Induced Amnesia:

    Bounce it. It has to go to the GY. But I wonder if you can just recast it multiple times and then destroy it

    Interesting interaction with bounce/discard on this. If you cast it, bounced it then discarded it from your hand you have essentially trapped the face down cards indefinitely.



  • @desolutionist

    You bounce it a bunch of times then destroy it to 'draw' them all.
    Or just bounce/flicker till your opponents library is empty. Parralax Wave combo kill?



  • Obviously a judge can/should chime in, but I don't see any reason why you would get the cards if you bounced, recast it, and destroyed it. After it changes zones I suspect you've lost your chance.

    This card seems like a worse Tolarian Winds to me.



  • I'm not a judge but I believe that since the card is "THE exiled cards" instead of "any cards exiled with" it means it does not stack and is in reference to this instance of Induced Amnesia, so if you bounce it you just exile cards forever.

    I think this is meant to be more of a mill / Screw your perfect hand card than it is something to combo on yourself.



  • @protoaddct said in Induced Amnesia:

    I'm not a judge but I believe that since the card is "THE exiled cards" instead of "any cards exiled with" it means it does not stack and is in reference to this instance of Induced Amnesia, so if you bounce it you just exile cards forever.

    Both wordings produce the same result. Like Andy said, an object that changes zones is treated as a new object. This card is unlikely to be playable.



  • This plus Chains of Mephistopheles seems fun, and that card feels drastically underplayed some times. But yes, I think it is unlikely.



  • @chubbyrain said in Induced Amnesia:

    @protoaddct said in Induced Amnesia:

    I'm not a judge but I believe that since the card is "THE exiled cards" instead of "any cards exiled with" it means it does not stack and is in reference to this instance of Induced Amnesia, so if you bounce it you just exile cards forever.

    Both wordings produce the same result. Like Andy said, an object that changes zones is treated as a new object. This card is unlikely to be playable.

    Unless we're ding'ing the opponent with x+Leovold. Or one of the other "they can't draw" effects.

    ...but then it's a worse version of the other draw7s we have, so, yeah, seems too high a cost for too little payoff.


  • TMD Supporter

    Well if you look at it as a blue City of Solitude, that has the ability to also be Tolarian Winds, then that’s not bad.



  • @desolutionist I might be missing the synergy, how do you make it act like a City of Solitude?


  • TMD Supporter

    @brass-man

    What I mean, is that it gets around Misstep and Flusterstorm and unless they Force it then their hand will be exiled. This would be better in a situation where maybe they've had a couple turns to sculpt a hand. At the least it's something that they might want to Force. Like Cabal Therapy.



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  • I don't think this is a combo card, as much as a control card you use on the opponent. If you have spirit if the lab, notion thief, or leovold in play and you land this on opponent... bad news.

    Then bounce it, so they can't get back their cards and you can do it again.

    (I still don't think that makes it playable... but cute maybe.)



  • This would be great in Griselbrand Oath. You could play it for value, or, draw a bunch off Griselbrand then virtually double that number.
    Edit: Or PO.



  • @topical_island said in Induced Amnesia:

    I don't think this is a combo card, as much as a control card you use on the opponent. If you have spirit if the lab, notion thief, or leovold in play and you land this on opponent... bad news.

    Then bounce it, so they can't get back their cards and you can do it again.

    (I still don't think that makes it playable... but cute maybe.)

    I like the applications in Leovold, however for the same cost there is Twister, which isn’t an auto include, so I’m not sure this would find a spot. I guess in a board state without Leovold, this could be better than a Twister which would give your opponent a full grip, so there’s that.



  • @john-cox Again. If you play it on yourself and bounce it, you lose a bunch of cards. So PO seems non-bo?



  • @enderfall I totally agree. I think your post pretty much sums up why this card shouldn't see much vintage play. (Not the "it's a bad card" argument.)

    Because it doesn't really have much of a place in the metagame. Unless I'm missing some combo, caused by paying it on yourself (which I probably am), I'm assuming we play it on opponent for a Mind Twist effect. But we are already in a world where games are very fast, and creature based, with few decks that want to hold up full hands and say go. Leovold is already good, and needs little help to win. If you are sticking a Leovold against tempo, you've likely already won the game, so what is this really doing in any deck?

    And if there is some combo, it still has to be better in the meta than Oath or Paradoxical to muscle it's way onto the playing field... This is a fine card, but I don't see much space for it in the meta. (If I even understand what it does...)



  • I agree this has no place in the meta, but I think this card is actually very, very strong. Certainly the strongest one I've seen in Rivals so far. I say that because, in a shell that can sacrifice it, it is potentially an insane draw spell OR a disruption piece, depending on what you want.

    The key to this thing as a draw engine is that, unlike Jar, you get to keep your bonus hand. So, you cast this dork with, say, 5 cards in hand. Exile your hand and draw 5. If you then sacrifice the enchantment, you get your original hand back and keep the cards you drew. That means this is 3 blue mana (plus whatever burden the sacrifice outlet puts on your deck) to draw up to 7 cards. That's really, really good. Even if you think it's usually only drawing you 3 - 4 cards, that's still a very good rate this side of Ancestral Recall!

    And, if you're in a combo shell, you can also spring this on your opponent to force a psuedo-mulligan if they've been sculpting their hand for a bit. That's what puts it above, say, Hatching Plans in my book.

    Personally? I'm sticking these in my Auratog / Parallax Wave casual deck. But, I think this is powerful enough to form a core of some kind of weird rogue deck in Modern or Legacy.

    EDIT: And, of course, this card blows nuggets if you draw it without other cards in hand...


 

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