[RIX] Blood Sun
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@maximumcdawg Gemstone mine is incorrect on that list. It doesn't sacrifice itself. It just does nothing, even if the Blood Sun is removed. From Oracle:
If the last mining counter is removed from Gemstone Mine in some way other than activating its ability (such as Chisei, Heart of Oceans), Gemstone Mine won’t be sacrificed but its ability can’t be activated.
what I'm saying is that with the errata on vale and ruins, the sac happens before it would even enter the battlefield. It doesn't make sense for sun to affect these before the sac is made. ETB effects are different. Because...wait for it...its entering the battlefield. Vale and ruins errata acts more of an additional cost to even play the lands, not an ETB effect. It's lazy, like I stated before, to just say under new rules this is also taken care of when in reality it does not.
What doesn't make any sense is the Lotus Vale mechanic in first place. Not the layering that prevents its sacrifice. Lands aren't supposed to have a cost associated with them, and they aren't supposed to use the stack.
EDIT: Someone put together this handy dandy cheat sheet to what Blood Sun does:
I don't know about this list. He is wrong on Gemstone Mine at the least, maybe more.
@protoaddct True. Since we've shown him to have been wrong at least once, we should infer that other things we says are probably wrong.
Although... I just said that, and I'm wrong all the time...
This layering stuff is confusing.
@protoaddct Fair enough, the list is bunky.
But, the specific ruling on Blood Sun (and Blood Moon) when applied to Lotus Vale is not bunk. That's legit exactly what the Comp Rules say now.
I mean, it's not like it matters. No one is going to run a 3 mana enchantment solely for the purpose of being able to run Lotus Vale and Scorched Ruins.
Lotus vale isnt required to make this card a vintage playable card. There are 8 moon lists in the format already. It’s mostly a budget list, but the power lists (which I am personally working on) are pretty decent.
I’m not sure this card is good enough for Vintage yet. Because it really doesn’t do enough against MUD. I will be sleaving the card up in Legacy however.
The list is also wrong about storage lands. Counters on the lands placed before the Sun enters play can still be spent. Same goes for Gemstone Mine, Tendo Ice Bridge, etc.
- Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth has no abilities (other than the Swamp’s mana ability to tap for B) but still turns all lands into swamps. This is true regardless of the relative time stamp of Urborg and Sun.
- Rhystic Cave functions normally.
- Zoetic Cavern can be cast face-down as a morphed creature as usual. It cannot be turned face-up.
@evouga Just curious - but why does this not shut off Urborg's "swampify the world" ability?
@thewhitedragon69 not 100% sure but maybe because that is a static effect and not an ability (such as triggered or activated).
@thewhitedragon69 layers. Type changes happen on an earlier layer than addition/removal of abilities.
@thewhitedragon69 Copied from somewhere:
Blood Sun and Urborg interact in a different way than Blood Moon and Urborg, which is important to note, due to layers. With Blood Sun, we apply Urborg’s type-changing ability first in layer 4, and then we apply Blood Sun’s ability in layer 6 and remove the ability from Urborg, but that happens AFTER Urborg has already given all other lands the ability to tap for B. Therefore, you end up with an Urborg with no abilities other than tapping for B, and all your other lands which can tap for B or their other colours.
Dear Ladies and Gents who know more than I... Has there been a recent card that effects a wider range of cards in a more complicated way than Blood Sun?
I have 0% confidence even half the interactions will be correctly functioning on modo.
@benjamin_berry would be wonderful to see a Boros solemnity/blood sun deck on modo. Try to break the one bug per turn holy grail game.
Because Ben probably won't post about it here's his 2-2 Blood-Tribal list from our Vintage yesterday.